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Staro 26.01.2025., 20:00   #2101
prileee
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Najbolje da sve kuhinje izgledaju ko u jugi.

Meni izgleda top, ne vidin u cemu je problem. Bolje nego random inox napa nasrid svega u zraku.


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Staro 26.01.2025., 20:56   #2102
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U jugi si velika većina nije mogla tako nešto niti priuštiti. Danas mogu još i manje.
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But there’s a reason. There’s a reason. There’s a reason for this, there’s a reason education sucks, and it’s the same reason that it will never, ever, ever be fixed. It’s never gonna get any better. Don’t look for it. Be happy with what you got. Because the owners of this country don't want that. I'm talking about the real owners now, the real owners, the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the senate, the congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying, lobbying, to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I'll tell you what they don’t want: They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. Thats against their interests. Thats right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table to figure out how badly they’re getting f*cked by a system that threw them overboard 30 f*cking years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you, sooner or later, 'cause they own this f*cking place. It's a big club, and you ain’t in it. You and I are not in the big club. And by the way, it's the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head in their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table is tilted folks. The game is rigged, and nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. Good honest hard-working people -- white collar, blue collar, it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on -- good honest hard-working people continue -- these are people of modest means -- continue to elect these rich c*cksuckers who don’t give a f*ck about them. They don’t give a f*ck about you. They don’t give a f*ck about you. They don't care about you at all -- at all -- at all. And nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. That's what the owners count on; the fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that's being jammed up their assholes everyday. Because the owners of this country know the truth: it's called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.
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Staro 27.01.2025., 06:02   #2103
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U jugi si velika većina nije mogla tako nešto niti priuštiti. Danas mogu još i manje.
ko ni aute pa sad skoro svaki član obielji ima po jedan

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Staro 27.01.2025., 12:39   #2104
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Novi projekt na kući uspješno završen!

Prije:
IMG-1767


Tijekom:
viber-image-2025-01-24-11-00-50-865 viber-image-2025-01-23-12-00-16-053 IMG-1775 IMG-1774 IMG-1772 IMG-1771 IMG-1770 viber-image-2025-01-21-10-35-57-685

Rezultat:
IMG-1797 IMG-1782 IMG-1776


Od ideje, nacrta, narudžbe, montaže, struje, interneta, sklapanja, sve on nule, solo sam sve napravio.

Zanemariti što tv nije vertikalno na sredini, novi tv dolazi, onda će se to štelati.

Iveral - bijela visoki sjaj, s blum okovima, usporivačima i 2 police oko 900EUR.
Drvo za okvir - bor, ljepljen, 4x4cm, kupio sam 2x2.4m u Bauhausu, oko 30EUR.
Isto takvo drvo samo 6x4cm za "vješalicu", 19EUR.
Ledice 15EUR.
Akustični panel oko 130EUR - 260x60cm.
Kamin - cca 300EUR.
+ sitnice
Šarafi, tiple, montažno ljepilo itd. još dodatnih 50-tak eur.

Plus mi je ostalo iverala za još neke sitnice po kući.

Sve skupa nekih 1400EUR, dobio sam sličnu ponudu za oko 4000EUR s računom i nekih 3000EUR bez.

Posla, montaža nekih 5 sati.
Priprema nekih 2 dana.
Kupnja i sve nekih 5 sati.
Rezanje i ostale finese još 5 sati.
Realno, 3 puna dana i sve je bilo gotovo, jedino sam kantiranje i rezanje iverala čekao tamo od 22.12. do 25.01.2025.

Ploča je 210x130 - rupa u sredini je 60x30.
Donja polica je 238x45cm visine i nekih 33cm dubine.
Ps kablovi prolaze kroz 1.5cm rupu koja je sakrita akustičnim panelom pa se ni to ne vidi. Kamin je dolje uštekan u struju, hdmi i sve ostalo provućeno kroz kanalicu u zidu.

Ploča visi na ovo "kuki", skine se za 10 sekundi. TV se izvlači van 90cm, tako da i on može dolje za manje od pola minute. U zidu je 10m kabel za hdmi.
Zadnje izmijenjeno od: Mommistake. 27.01.2025. u 12:59.
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Staro 27.01.2025., 13:24   #2105
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eventualno da si pogletal zid još jednom, leptirom ...ili panel stavil na cijeli zid
ali sviđa mi se...samo da moja ne vidi...imal budem i ja posla
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Staro 27.01.2025., 14:00   #2106
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Da, to me bode u oči, zid je loše odrađen.

Nisam htio ploču po cijelome.
Zadnje izmijenjeno od: Mommistake. 27.01.2025. u 14:06.
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Staro 27.01.2025., 17:47   #2107
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Ekipa,

Od građevinara sam dobio savjet da zidove u kupatilu sa kojih sam poskidao tapete ( da, tapete ) obojim silikatnom fasadom.

Što mislite o toj ideji ?
Google kaže da je paroprospusna i vodoodbojna što je idealno za takav prostor a Jub ima i Bio verziju za unutarnju upotrebu:
https://www.jub.hr/unutarnje-boje-i-...l-bio-silicate

On veli da i hodnik nakon skidanja tapeta radije prekrijem sa njom umjesto klasike ( primer, glet, jupol ).
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Staro 27.01.2025., 18:14   #2108
mkey
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ko ni aute pa sad skoro svaki član obielji ima po jedan

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Usporedba vozila općenito s nabrijanim kuhinjama je lagano promašen fudbal. Moji su kasnih 80tih imali dva auta. Samo po sebi, ništa posebno. Je da su to bili fićo i lada, ali tvoj kriterij "skoro svaki član obielji ima po jeda"je time zadovoljen.
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But there’s a reason. There’s a reason. There’s a reason for this, there’s a reason education sucks, and it’s the same reason that it will never, ever, ever be fixed. It’s never gonna get any better. Don’t look for it. Be happy with what you got. Because the owners of this country don't want that. I'm talking about the real owners now, the real owners, the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the senate, the congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying, lobbying, to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I'll tell you what they don’t want: They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. Thats against their interests. Thats right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table to figure out how badly they’re getting f*cked by a system that threw them overboard 30 f*cking years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you, sooner or later, 'cause they own this f*cking place. It's a big club, and you ain’t in it. You and I are not in the big club. And by the way, it's the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head in their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table is tilted folks. The game is rigged, and nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. Good honest hard-working people -- white collar, blue collar, it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on -- good honest hard-working people continue -- these are people of modest means -- continue to elect these rich c*cksuckers who don’t give a f*ck about them. They don’t give a f*ck about you. They don’t give a f*ck about you. They don't care about you at all -- at all -- at all. And nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. That's what the owners count on; the fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that's being jammed up their assholes everyday. Because the owners of this country know the truth: it's called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.
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Staro 27.01.2025., 22:23   #2109
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Još prije par godina stolar mi je izradio rukohvate, a ja sam ih montirao. S obzirom da ufrezani dio za nosače nije napravljen pod kutom, podmetnuo sam podloške kako bi dobio rukohvat paralelan sa zidom. Takvo rješenje je ok, ali drvo škripi kad se osloniš, baš zato što nekako te podloške nasjedaju na samo drvo.

Trebam ideju s čime izfrezati rukohvat tako da dobijem željeni nagib? Možda dremel?

https://ibb.co/58cH227
https://ibb.co/QJ73sws
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Staro 27.01.2025., 22:47   #2110
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Ovak to u konačnici treba izgledat minus izmjene koje su nastupile u međuvremenu.
Dobri su renderi, lakse je stolaru i svima radit kad zna sta treba biti na kraju

Jel radis vizualizacije ili to stigne od arhitekata ?
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Staro 27.01.2025., 22:50   #2111
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Trebam ideju s čime izfrezati rukohvat tako da dobijem željeni nagib? Možda dremel?
A da ubaciš unutra drveni shim? Širi na jednoj, uži na drugoj strani.
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But there’s a reason. There’s a reason. There’s a reason for this, there’s a reason education sucks, and it’s the same reason that it will never, ever, ever be fixed. It’s never gonna get any better. Don’t look for it. Be happy with what you got. Because the owners of this country don't want that. I'm talking about the real owners now, the real owners, the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the senate, the congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying, lobbying, to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I'll tell you what they don’t want: They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. Thats against their interests. Thats right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table to figure out how badly they’re getting f*cked by a system that threw them overboard 30 f*cking years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you, sooner or later, 'cause they own this f*cking place. It's a big club, and you ain’t in it. You and I are not in the big club. And by the way, it's the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head in their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table is tilted folks. The game is rigged, and nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. Good honest hard-working people -- white collar, blue collar, it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on -- good honest hard-working people continue -- these are people of modest means -- continue to elect these rich c*cksuckers who don’t give a f*ck about them. They don’t give a f*ck about you. They don’t give a f*ck about you. They don't care about you at all -- at all -- at all. And nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. That's what the owners count on; the fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that's being jammed up their assholes everyday. Because the owners of this country know the truth: it's called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.
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Staro 28.01.2025., 08:09   #2112
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Najbolje da sve kuhinje izgledaju ko u jugi.

Meni izgleda top, ne vidin u cemu je problem. Bolje nego random inox napa nasrid svega u zraku.


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Sva sreća pa nemamo svi isti ukus, postojala bi samo jedna vrsta i boja namještaja, auta itd

Za mene su to gluposti, oko nečega što osim izgleda košta a funkcionalnost nula.

Ok, ima ljudi koji doma ne kuhaju, pa to onda ima više funkciju ukrasa pošto je otvoreno i gosti to sve vide kad dođu u dnevnu sobu

Koliko je ljudi proklinjali npr visoki sjaj na vratima kuhinja, da stalno mora brisati jer se sve vidi.
To je jedno vrijeme bilo jaaako popularno.

Al ok, svaka čast na trudu na takvim uratcima
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Staro 28.01.2025., 09:11   #2113
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Fino. Ta šuplja stropna obloga, je li to nešto popularno? Ja, neuk kakav jesam, ne vidim svrhu.
Stavlja se da se spusti plafon da kuhinja ide do plafona a da nije 260cm visoka.

Netko stavlja blendu ispred, puno ljudi se to ne sviđa.

Netko ostavlja rupu, 10-15cm do plafona.

Ali većina ljudi to stavlja da kuhinja bude do plafona, pa se spušta plafon, ili iveralom ili knaufom ili nešto slično.

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Nema svrhe. Estetika. Tak arhitekt veli, a ja se ne miješam u njegov posao.
Top izgleda.

Na kraju dana ako ste vi zadovoljni, to je jedino važno.
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Staro 28.01.2025., 10:51   #2114
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Ekipa,

Od građevinara sam dobio savjet da zidove u kupatilu sa kojih sam poskidao tapete ( da, tapete ) obojim silikatnom fasadom.

Što mislite o toj ideji ?
Google kaže da je paroprospusna i vodoodbojna što je idealno za takav prostor a Jub ima i Bio verziju za unutarnju upotrebu:
https://www.jub.hr/unutarnje-boje-i-...l-bio-silicate

On veli da i hodnik nakon skidanja tapeta radije prekrijem sa njom umjesto klasike ( primer, glet, jupol ).
Možeš naravno.
Samo ne znam kako se to poslije da skinuti ili na to nešto stavljati ako odlučiš ljepiti pločice u kupaoni.
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Staro 28.01.2025., 13:06   #2115
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A da ubaciš unutra drveni shim? Širi na jednoj, uži na drugoj strani.
Morao bi biti jako tanak, a i ne znam kako da ga napravim
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Staro 28.01.2025., 13:29   #2116
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@domy_os kaj si na kraju napravio s onim OSB pločama? Bojim se da ti za 15m treba nekaj ozbiljnije od toga.
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Staro 28.01.2025., 16:10   #2117
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Ipak neću ići uzduž nego popreko tako da će dužina biti cca 6 m. Krajeve ću pomoću L spojnica zašarafiti za vijenac krova, dole također učvrstiti L spojnicama cik-cak svakih pola metra i OSB "daske" spojiti međusobno ravnom spojnicom.
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Nisu slomili u kratko vrijeme. Slamali su godinama, desetljećima pa i stoljećima. Svaka odgledana epizoda Big Brothera, svaki dečko koji ne zna niti promijeniti žarulju, a kamoli uzeti sjekiru i pocijepati drva, svaka cura koja misli da je briga za vlastitu obitelj robija, ali rad za par tisuća kuna u korporaciji 12 sati dnevno blagodat, svako promicanje terora političke korektnosti, svaka podrška promociji svih oblika poremećenosti… Sve to nas je dovelo do ovdje. Korona je samo zakucavanje lopte u gol nakon što je obrana već izigrana i golman odletio u prazno.



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Staro 28.01.2025., 16:45   #2118
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Možeš naravno.
Samo ne znam kako se to poslije da skinuti ili na to nešto stavljati ako odlučiš ljepiti pločice u kupaoni.
Tnx,

Pločice su već postavljene, sa ovim bi odradio strop i dio zida poviše pločica.
Prošli vlasnik je to sve pokrio sa tapetama koje je sad živa muka skinuti ali evo ide polako uz dosta namakanja vodom.
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Staro 28.01.2025., 17:11   #2119
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Da te tapete je koma skidati, uvijek ostaje dijelova
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Staro 28.01.2025., 20:32   #2120
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Morao bi biti jako tanak, a i ne znam kako da ga napravim
Pa i ne mora biti toliko tanak, dok je povoljan omjer uže i šire strane. Možda da potražiš neki drveni klin po bauhausima pa odrežeš uži kraj?
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But there’s a reason. There’s a reason. There’s a reason for this, there’s a reason education sucks, and it’s the same reason that it will never, ever, ever be fixed. It’s never gonna get any better. Don’t look for it. Be happy with what you got. Because the owners of this country don't want that. I'm talking about the real owners now, the real owners, the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the senate, the congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying, lobbying, to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I'll tell you what they don’t want: They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. Thats against their interests. Thats right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table to figure out how badly they’re getting f*cked by a system that threw them overboard 30 f*cking years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you, sooner or later, 'cause they own this f*cking place. It's a big club, and you ain’t in it. You and I are not in the big club. And by the way, it's the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head in their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table is tilted folks. The game is rigged, and nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. Good honest hard-working people -- white collar, blue collar, it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on -- good honest hard-working people continue -- these are people of modest means -- continue to elect these rich c*cksuckers who don’t give a f*ck about them. They don’t give a f*ck about you. They don’t give a f*ck about you. They don't care about you at all -- at all -- at all. And nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. That's what the owners count on; the fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that's being jammed up their assholes everyday. Because the owners of this country know the truth: it's called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.
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Staro 30.01.2025., 20:07   #2121
murina
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Kupio bih 3, 4 RGB reflektora za vrt, kojima mogu programirati scene na kompu ili mobu. Ima tko iskustva ili kakvu preporuku?

Ovaj set sa Amazona se čini ok ali se bojim da je IP44 preslabo

Ovi su valjda bolji -> link na Amazon
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Zadnje izmijenjeno od: murina. 30.01.2025. u 20:24.
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Staro 30.01.2025., 20:36   #2122
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Dobri su renderi, lakse je stolaru i svima radit kad zna sta treba biti na kraju

Jel radis vizualizacije ili to stigne od arhitekata ?
Ma jok, mi u Corpusu koristimo neki defaultni render. Ovo je baš došlo od arhitekta. Mada, bolji su mu renderi od izvedbenog nacrta. Točno kužiš da se negdje zaigro s copy/pasteom pa onda pojašnjenja prek Zooma pošto nije iz Hrvatske. I naravno, stvarno stanje na terenu nikad nije isto kao na nacrtu.
Ali da, renderi baš lijepo izgledaju. Npr arhitektonski studio 4UHA ima puno lošije rendere od ovog lika.
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Staro 30.01.2025., 21:02   #2123
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Kupio bih 3, 4 RGB reflektora za vrt, kojima mogu programirati scene na kompu ili mobu. Ima tko iskustva ili kakvu preporuku?
Moja preporuka ide za GOVEE kako si ih i sam naveo, ali svakako kupi preko njihove stranice jer stalno imaju neke popuste i sada vidim da su jeftiniji od Amazon ponude za 20€ za navedeni model, ali imaš i drugih njihovih opcija pa pogledaj.
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Staro 30.01.2025., 22:04   #2124
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Super info, naručio sam par.

Ovaj mi se čini odličan https://eu.govee.com/products/govee-triad-flood-light

EDIT: Nema više reflektora na njihovoj stranici, valjda sam kupio zadnji par
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Staro 31.01.2025., 09:43   #2125
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Čiju kamenu vunu uzeti, Knauf ili Rockwool? Dilema je između ove dvije:

https://www.bauhaus.hr/kamena-vuna/k...fit/p/26358219

https://www.bauhaus.hr/kamena-vuna/r...k-c/p/28049333

Ne nalazim ovaj Rockwool Multirock C na službenim stranicama pa ne znam specs.
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Nisu slomili u kratko vrijeme. Slamali su godinama, desetljećima pa i stoljećima. Svaka odgledana epizoda Big Brothera, svaki dečko koji ne zna niti promijeniti žarulju, a kamoli uzeti sjekiru i pocijepati drva, svaka cura koja misli da je briga za vlastitu obitelj robija, ali rad za par tisuća kuna u korporaciji 12 sati dnevno blagodat, svako promicanje terora političke korektnosti, svaka podrška promociji svih oblika poremećenosti… Sve to nas je dovelo do ovdje. Korona je samo zakucavanje lopte u gol nakon što je obrana već izigrana i golman odletio u prazno.



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Staro 31.01.2025., 10:26   #2126
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Kolega je prije spominjao, Rockwoolova vuna je ujedno i vodoodbojna pa ako ti to sta znaci.

Ni ja nisam nasao nista konkretno za te starije nazive/modele (?). Vidio sam samo da Multirock 35 zamjenjuje stari Multirock:
https://www.rockwool.com/hr/primjena...-multirock-35/
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Staro 01.02.2025., 18:14   #2127
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Super info, naručio sam par.

Ovaj mi se čini odličan https://eu.govee.com/products/govee-triad-flood-light

EDIT: Nema više reflektora na njihovoj stranici, valjda sam kupio zadnji par
Nabaci fotke konačnog posla da vidimo ideju zbog koje je kupljeno ovo
Baš me zanima.
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Staro 01.02.2025., 18:46   #2128
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Hoću, iako je vrt još u građevinskom neredu. Razvlačim struju, a ovo testni par RGB reflektora.
Nedavno sam bio u Belgiji, pa smo naletili na festival svjetla u japanskom vrtu (kažu najveći japanski vrt u EU). Pokušat ću rekreirat neke detalje na 35m2 mediteransko japanskog vrta u Splitu

Našao sam ok video sa festivala, idem bacit oko šta imam u albumu na mobitelu


https://youtu.be/bDkZtvi9gU8?si=PLh7KnqzyUTndQfS
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Staro 02.02.2025., 17:50   #2129
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Ima li netko preporuku tipli za stiropor?

Moram postaviti nesto lampi po fasadi, pa da to stoji kako treba
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Staro 02.02.2025., 18:06   #2130
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https://art-visum.hr/wp-content/uplo...20160103-1.png

Iako to možeš i zalijepiti s nekim dobrim ljepilom.

Otkad sam počeo raditi s drvom oduševljenjen sam TTK D4 ljepilom. Pretpostavljam da su sva PU D4 ljepila slična, ali ta đubra drže kao ništa slično. Lijepe se na glatki inox kao sponzoruša na nogometaša.
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