NVIDIA-based Graphics Cards Will Have a Bug in Half-Life 2?

[Jelc]

E...sad...
Najvjerovatnije će se to moći nekako rješiti-pitanje je kad.
Mislim da je to posljedica toga kaj je NVidia muljala sa specifikacijama svojih grafulja/jedan tjedan izjave da će biti to-i-to...,drugi tjedan druga priča/...pa za dva tjedna odluče sve promijeniti...

Ili je samo marketinška patka...

NVIDIA-based Graphics Cards Will Have a Bug in Half-Life 2? - 12:48 am EST - MrB
X-bit labs has written an article about the inability of current DX9 cards to enable FSAA with one of the most anticipated games of the year, Half Life 2. The bright side though is that there is a possible solution to the problem for ATI's DX9 cards, from the 9500 to the 9800.

According a Valve officials quoted in forums at HalfLife2.net web-site, there are problems with the way that current hardware implements FSAA. If you enable it, you will see a lot of artifacts on polygon boundaries due to the way that current graphics processors sample texture subjects with FSAA enabled.
Valve continued that this is a problem for any application that packs small textures into larger textures. The small textures will bleed into each other if you have multi-sample FSAA enabled.

Currently both leading graphics chips designers use multi-sampling or hybrid multi-sampling + super-sampling methods to for FSAA.

The developers of the legendary Half-Life game said that drivers are not likely to solve the problem, however, it still can be solved for graphics cards based on VPUs from ATI Technologies, such as RADEON 9500-, 9600-, 9700- and 9800-series. As for NVIDIA GeForce and GeForce FX-series, there are practically no chances to find a workaround, according to Valve.

Some industry sources indicated that the problem with such FSAA is a known one and is to be addressed in DirectX 9.1 and next-generation graphics processors with Pixel Shaders 3.0 and Vertex Shaders 3.0, such as ATI Technologies’s code-named R420 and NVIDIA’s code-named NV40 VPUs and derivatives. Both next-generation products will come later than the Half-Life 2 that is expected to be available by October.

[marac]

Navodno da ce to rijesiti novim driverima, a tko će ga znati :confused:

Ja ću uvijek ostat pri Nvidiji makar umjesto grafičkih počeli hakmesere proizvodit

--
Trenutacno pegla:
Prljavo kazalište - Anarhist
Death and taxes are inevitable; at least death doesn't get worse every year.

[Jelc]

Originally posted by marac
Navodno da ce to rijesiti novim driverima, a tko će ga znati :confused:

Ja ću uvijek ostat pri Nvidiji makar umjesto grafičkih počeli hakmesere proizvodit

--
Trenutacno pegla:
Prljavo kazalište - Anarhist
Death and taxes are inevitable; at least death doesn't get worse every year.

Ajd...ne seri...
Hakmesera već dugo nema "pravih"...
Sve nekaj lagano i sa plastičnom drškom...

Eeeeee..... umenejarane "pegla" dobri stari LZ....tak jasno na 72 cm preko ATI-ce ...DVD sa onog "kazališnog" koncerta....



Kakve sam danas volje poslje ide na full-You Shook Me All Night Long....

[greg SE]

Originally posted by Jelc
E...sad...
Najvjerovatnije će se to moći nekako rješiti-pitanje je kad.
Mislim da je to posljedica toga kaj je NVidia muljala sa specifikacijama svojih grafulja/jedan tjedan izjave da će biti to-i-to...,drugi tjedan druga priča/...pa za dva tjedna odluče sve promijeniti...

Ili je samo marketinška patka...

.

prije ovo zadnje - prerano je da bi se govorilo s sigurnoscu da nesto nece raditi s necim kad igra izadje.uostalom ako imaju neki ozbiljan problem vjerovatno je odavno javljeno nvidi i ako je do njih problem rijesit ce se.....
ako se nemoze rijesiti softwareski onda je odgovornost kod developera igre

[Jelc]

Originally posted by greg SE
prije ovo zadnje - prerano je da bi se govorilo s sigurnoscu da nesto nece raditi s necim kad igra izadje.uostalom ako imaju neki ozbiljan problem vjerovatno je odavno javljeno nvidi i ako je do njih problem rijesit ce se.....
ako se nemoze rijesiti softwareski onda je odgovornost kod developera igre

Pa to je bila izjava tipova koji rade HL II...
A da je NVidia muljala sa specifikacijama-je...pa kad im je cijela linija grafi otišla u...pa su onda kakti opet te ovo,te,ono...


E-sad...nemožeš baš i držat sve podatke o grafi u "tajnosti" i očekivati da će ti netko optimizirati igru po "duhu svetom"

[MisterM]

Originally posted by Jelc
Ajd...ne seri...
Hakmesera već dugo nema "pravih"...
Sve nekaj lagano i sa plastičnom drškom...

Ima pravih ak hočeš iz domače radinosti

[Jelc]

Originally posted by MisterM
Ima pravih ak hočeš iz domače radinosti

Ma to se traži
Ja sam si našao jednu malu sjekiricu...onak-taman je

Ajmo mi natrag na problem...
Evo kaj novo vele-

Gabe Newell, Valve's main man has commented on Half Life 2 and DX9 cards. Click the link for the whole discussion as it's rather informative. Here's the post in it's entirety


Since people seem to be hyperventilating over the anti-aliasing issue, I thought I'd update everyone.
1) How bad is the problem?

With current multi-sample implementations of anti-aliasing, you may sample texels outside of the polygon boundary, which may result in sampling light maps from other polygons.

This has always been a problem. This is a problem with Quake 1, Quake 2, Quake 3, Daikatana, Sin, Elite Force, Half-Life, Counter-Strike on the X-Box, or any game that uses packed lightmaps with multi-sample anti-aliasing.

You would see these artifacts on polygon boundaries where the wrong lightmap is being sampled. It will look like a bright or dark line on the edge of a polygon.

Gary McTaggart brought this up in an email because he is being pretty hardcore about graphics quality right now. This is not a new problem. If you've run a game that uses lightmaps with anti-aliasing turned on, then you've been seeing these artifacts the whole time.

Artifacts may show up more frequently in Half-Life 2 simply because we've eliminated lots of other artifacts, and because we have a lot of variation in scene lighting due to our art direction.

To put this in perspective, not doing tri-linear filtering on mipmaps is a lot worse.

2) What are potential solutions?


Support Centroid Sampling

Use Pixel Shaders to Clamp Texture Coordinates


Centroid sampling doesn't have the problem that center sampling does in multi-sample antil-aliasing. ATI has supported this form of anti-aliasing for the 9000 series. The tricky part is enabling this when DirectX doesn't easily expose this.

There's a different trick you can use with hardware, such as NVIDIA's, that doesn't support centroid sampling. Basically you trade off some pixel shader bandwidth to clamp the texture coordinates so that you don't sample texels outside of that polygon's lightmap sub-rect.

Between these two approaches, multi-sample anti-aliasing artifacts should be a non-issue for any DX9-level hardware running Pixel Shader 2.0.

3) How will this look?

We'll release one of the demo movies with the anti-aliasing artifacts in and one with the anti-aliasing changes.

[pinsla]

E ajmo sad svi sa nvidijinim grafama uglas:
IMA LIIII NAAAAAADEEEEEEEE ZA NAAAAAASSSSSSSS??????????????????'

[marac]

Originally posted by pinsla
E ajmo sad svi sa nvidijinim grafama uglas:
IMA LIIII NAAAAAADEEEEEEEE ZA NAAAAAASSSSSSSS??????????????????'

Za nas ima ali za tebe ocito NE

[LordNitro]

LOL.Hej pinsla ak tako mrzis nVidiu zasto onda posjecujes nVidia forum?

[pinsla]

Originally posted by nitro
LOL.Hej pinsla ak tako mrzis nVidiu zasto onda posjecujes nVidia forum?

Pa ja uopće ne mrzim nvidiju
Istina ih bog i ne volim previše ali kaj je tu je
Ali ovo sa half lifeom mi je fakat zazvučalo zanimljivo
Uostalom kaj se odma kofrčite šala je šala a kolko sam skužio to se odnosi na FX kartice tak da ostale ne kači.
Vi ostali sa mx-icama ćete moć uključivat 4x aa do mile volje

[LordNitro]

Ajd dobro, oprosteno ti je.Pljuj po cem i kom god hoces do kraja zivota.Ja imam MX pa ga ionako necu moc ukljucivat!LOL!