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Staro 16.01.2025., 18:09   #5461
Darko150
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Kakvu bih hidroizolaciju stavio na betonsku deku koja je pod os garaže. Ispod nje, u podrumu, je spremište.
Sada, kad dođem u garažu sa snijegom na autu, on se otopi i sve curi dolje u podrum, toliko je deka porozna...
Trebam nešto tipa premaz koji bih premazao na tu betonsku deku. Smola i ljepenka ne dolaze u obzir, jer se vozi i hoda preko te deke.
I, naravno, nešto što nije jako skupo i da mogu sam premazati.
Ima 4x5 m, cca 20 m2...
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Staro 16.01.2025., 18:15   #5462
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Ako nezelis raditi sve bas kako treba (bitumenski premaz pa ljepenka/katran pa stiropor/glazura/plocice) onda mozes probati sa nekim od hidro izolacijskih premaza. Draco ima dosta tih premaza pa prouci kod njih malo (vjerojatno i SIKA ima slicnih stvari).

https://dracopro.com/proizvodi/hidro...anski-premazi/
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Staro 16.01.2025., 19:15   #5463
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Pa to ti je to, sam si si odgovorio na pitanje.

Ako je gore gola deka, treba staviti hidroizolaciju (bitumen ljepenka V4, hidroizolacijske membrane ili čak sad imaš hidroizolacijske premaze), toplinsku izolaciju, najbolje XPS bar 3cm, pa folija, estrih u padu, hidroizolacija i pločice (ako se radi o prohodnoj terasi). To je po PS-u. Ako ti iznutra napraviš sve ovo kaj si napisao, svejedno imaš problem od gore, ako su ti financije problem za početak gore napravi hidroizolaciju da se spriječi prodor vlage, ali tada nemoj hodati po tome jer će se sa vremenom potrošiti.
Stavljao sam od Draca hidro izolacijski premaz na gornji dio te betonske ploče, sjećam se da je bio dosta skup.
Nisu do kraja riješeni imovinski odnosi, pa se nitko ne koristi tom terasom.
Što se tiče hidro izolacije, meni su komentirali majstori po kvaliteti Mapei, Draco, pa Sika.
S time da je dosta mapei kompliciran za upotrebu i najskuplji.


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Staro 16.01.2025., 19:52   #5464
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Ako nezelis raditi sve bas kako treba (bitumenski premaz pa ljepenka/katran pa stiropor/glazura/plocice) onda mozes probati sa nekim od hidro izolacijskih premaza. Draco ima dosta tih premaza pa prouci kod njih malo (vjerojatno i SIKA ima slicnih stvari).

https://dracopro.com/proizvodi/hidro...anski-premazi/
Ako je to za mene... Da, znam da ima puuno tih raznih premaza i baš zato bih rado savjet koji od njih (a da je najjeftiniji &#128514 uzeti, obzirom da je deka, izgleda, jako porozna kad 3 litre otopljenog snijega scuri u podrum i ima do koljena vode... 🤣🤣🤣
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Staro 16.01.2025., 20:03   #5465
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Kryton je najbolji za to ( s time mažu brane u hidro elektanama i sl. Te daju 30+ godina garancije) ali neznam jel vise imaju zastupnika kod nas ( ja sam to htio za podrumsku deku kad sam zidao kucu prije xy godina ali bilo mi skuplje tada od klasicno resitol+v4 ljepenka pa nisam kupio.

S obzirom da ti imas malo kvadrata mozda je to ok solucija kod tebe.

https://www.kryton.com/
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Staro 16.01.2025., 20:12   #5466
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Imam problem sa gljivicama...
Ako ti je hidroizolacija dobra, ti nemaš problem s prodorom vode nego s hladnim mostom.
Dakle, treba ti izolacija.
Najskuplja varijanta, gore na ploču izolacija, glazura, pločice ili kamen.
Skuplja varijanta, spušteni plafon, izolacija od vune, knauf.
Jeftina varijanta, zaljepi Pufatherm ploče, pogletaj, pofarbaj.
Najjeftinija varijanta, pogletat s Jubolin Thermo i pofarbat s Jupol Thermo.
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Staro 16.01.2025., 20:13   #5467
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Dali ti je rjesena ventilacija ispod ploce? Jer dosta stolara ne probusi rupe ispod indukcije nego samo ostavi 1cm prostora i to dosta ploca ubije na tezim "okretajima"
Imam ploču pola širine s dvije zone, ispod je pećnica, ali element ima dosta velike otvore na leđima i dosta prostora.
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Staro 17.01.2025., 11:47   #5468
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Ako je to za mene... Da, znam da ima puuno tih raznih premaza i baš zato bih rado savjet koji od njih (a da je najjeftiniji &#128514 uzeti, obzirom da je deka, izgleda, jako porozna kad 3 litre otopljenog snijega scuri u podrum i ima do koljena vode... 🤣🤣🤣

Ni jedan nije jeftin, to ti mogu reći iz osobnog iskustva.



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Ako ti je hidroizolacija dobra, ti nemaš problem s prodorom vode nego s hladnim mostom.
Dakle, treba ti izolacija.
Najskuplja varijanta, gore na ploču izolacija, glazura, pločice ili kamen.
Skuplja varijanta, spušteni plafon, izolacija od vune, knauf.
Jeftina varijanta, zaljepi Pufatherm ploče, pogletaj, pofarbaj.
Najjeftinija varijanta, pogletat s Jubolin Thermo i pofarbat s Jupol Thermo.

Hvala puno na savjetima!



Najskuplja varijanta mi je nemoguća, jer nisu riješeni neki imovinsko pravni odnosi u zgradi, i pitanje je vlasništva terase.


Razmišljam možda u prvoj fazi napraviti jeftinu varijantu, sa Pufatherm pločama, vidjeti kako to drži, i dal se pojavljuju gljivice, tj vlaga, i onda ako je sve ok u idućoj godini spustiti plafon i staviti vunu+knauf.,


Vidim da piše da je debljina jedne Pufatherm ploče 7 mm, jel se smije staviti ploču na ploču, tj debljina da bude 1,4 cm?
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Staro 17.01.2025., 13:23   #5469
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Vjerojatno da ako koristiš pufatherm ljepilo al najbolje ti je kontaktirat Bačelić.
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Staro 17.01.2025., 20:21   #5470
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Da li je za očekivati, ako bi se spustio strop od hladne plohe i ubacila unutra kakva već izolacija, da se na samoj hladnoj plohi više ne bi hvatalo to crno govno?
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But there’s a reason. There’s a reason. There’s a reason for this, there’s a reason education sucks, and it’s the same reason that it will never, ever, ever be fixed. It’s never gonna get any better. Don’t look for it. Be happy with what you got. Because the owners of this country don't want that. I'm talking about the real owners now, the real owners, the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the senate, the congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying, lobbying, to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I'll tell you what they don’t want: They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. Thats against their interests. Thats right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table to figure out how badly they’re getting f*cked by a system that threw them overboard 30 f*cking years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you, sooner or later, 'cause they own this f*cking place. It's a big club, and you ain’t in it. You and I are not in the big club. And by the way, it's the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head in their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table is tilted folks. The game is rigged, and nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. Good honest hard-working people -- white collar, blue collar, it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on -- good honest hard-working people continue -- these are people of modest means -- continue to elect these rich c*cksuckers who don’t give a f*ck about them. They don’t give a f*ck about you. They don’t give a f*ck about you. They don't care about you at all -- at all -- at all. And nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. That's what the owners count on; the fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that's being jammed up their assholes everyday. Because the owners of this country know the truth: it's called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.
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Staro 17.01.2025., 20:26   #5471
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Ne. Samo ces sakrit problem. Izolacija nikad ne ide unutra, vec van.
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Staro 17.01.2025., 20:53   #5472
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To je i meni jedino što je logično.
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But there’s a reason. There’s a reason. There’s a reason for this, there’s a reason education sucks, and it’s the same reason that it will never, ever, ever be fixed. It’s never gonna get any better. Don’t look for it. Be happy with what you got. Because the owners of this country don't want that. I'm talking about the real owners now, the real owners, the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the senate, the congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying, lobbying, to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I'll tell you what they don’t want: They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. Thats against their interests. Thats right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table to figure out how badly they’re getting f*cked by a system that threw them overboard 30 f*cking years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you, sooner or later, 'cause they own this f*cking place. It's a big club, and you ain’t in it. You and I are not in the big club. And by the way, it's the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head in their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table is tilted folks. The game is rigged, and nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. Good honest hard-working people -- white collar, blue collar, it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on -- good honest hard-working people continue -- these are people of modest means -- continue to elect these rich c*cksuckers who don’t give a f*ck about them. They don’t give a f*ck about you. They don’t give a f*ck about you. They don't care about you at all -- at all -- at all. And nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. That's what the owners count on; the fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that's being jammed up their assholes everyday. Because the owners of this country know the truth: it's called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.
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Staro 18.01.2025., 08:46   #5473
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Po toj logici, potkrovni stanovi bi trebali po crijepu imat naslaganu izolaciju.
Naravno da se može i iznutra stavljat izolacija...
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Staro 18.01.2025., 10:07   #5474
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Po toj logici, potkrovni stanovi bi trebali po crijepu imat naslaganu izolaciju.
Naravno da se može i iznutra stavljat izolacija...
Meni je krovar pričao da ako se radi kako treba, izolacija ide ispod samog crijepa, na daske, dakle prvo daske, pa izolacija, pa daske pa crijep. Ne radi se iznutra, nego izvana kada radiš/mijenjaš krov.

Naravno da ako nemaš mogućnosti, bolje išta nego ništa pa staviš iznutra između greda izolaciju.
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Staro 18.01.2025., 10:12   #5475
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Može staviti odmah ispod crijepa, ali pošto crijep sam po sebi ima neka izolacijska svojstva, plus krovište je ventilirano ispod crijepa (letve uzduž pa poprijeko) ne treba
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Staro 18.01.2025., 10:22   #5476
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E da, i ako se potkrovlje ne koristi za stanovanje, možeš i na pod u potkrovlju samo naslagat stiropor/striodur, pa će i to pomoći.
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Staro 18.01.2025., 14:03   #5477
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Meni je krovar pričao da ako se radi kako treba, izolacija ide ispod samog crijepa, na daske, dakle prvo daske, pa izolacija, pa daske pa crijep. Ne radi se iznutra, nego izvana kada radiš/mijenjaš krov.

Naravno da ako nemaš mogućnosti, bolje išta nego ništa pa staviš iznutra između greda izolaciju.
Ok, u čemu je razlika između toga što si napisao i normalne ugradnje vune između rogova?
I na kaj zakucava te daske povrh vune ak radi po tom "kak treba" principu?
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Staro 18.01.2025., 14:12   #5478
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Vjerujem da su veći gubici nego da se stavi i vuna izvana. Isto kao i fasada, izvana se rješava i izolira.
Prošle godine sam obnavljao krovište i s vanjske strane sam stavio kamenu vunu, a iznutra između greda mekanu vunu. Potkrovlje mi je sad tip top izolirano.
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Staro 18.01.2025., 17:57   #5479
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Pa ako možeš isti broj centimetara vune zbrojeno izvana i iznutra stavit samo iznutra, dođeš na isto, ako je krovište dobro ventilirano.
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Staro 18.01.2025., 18:38   #5480
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Ja osobno nebi nikakvu vunu stavljao direkt ispod crijepa.
Bit priče je da ide neka folija prije svega koja je vodonepropusna, a poslije nje sve ostalo.
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Staro 18.01.2025., 18:42   #5481
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Ja osobno nebi nikakvu vunu stavljao direkt ispod crijepa.
Bit priče je da ide neka folija prije svega koja je vodonepropusna, a poslije nje sve ostalo.
Ide i folija obaevzno, to mi je rekao.

@Fanatik:A kako se točno radi i slaže...ne znam nisam ulazio sa njime u detalje, rekao mi je da mi je to preskupo ako ne mislim živiti i u potkrovlju (ne mislim). Ali mi je rekao da je to naj metoda ako želiš izolirati kako treba. Isto kao i fasada.
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Staro 18.01.2025., 22:52   #5482
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A kako biste izolirali stan od tavana, ako se u tavanu ne zivi? Imam gubitke kroz plafon. Iz strane stana u plafonu su koliko vidim opeke jer kad busim plafon nakon zbuke dolazi opeka ili zeljezo (najvjerojatnije oni armirani nosaci i poredane opeke, ne znam kako se to strucno zove). Na tavanu nema izolacije i vidim samo betonsku plocu. Ne sjecam se jel bilo cega na krovu ispod crijepa. Kuca je iz 70tih. Tavan je zatvoren.

Drugo pitanje, podovi. Ispod mene je stan. Na podu su plocice i parketi u istoj razini bez pragova itd. Sve se jako cuje ispod od hodanja, kuckanja, bas sve. Mislim da ni tu nema neke izolacije, pa bi teoretski mogao dignuti pod sa nekakvim festor plocama i laminatom, ali mislim da to ne bi pomoglo. Ili se varam. Se moze tu sta napraviti?
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Staro 18.01.2025., 23:44   #5483
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Zvučna izolacija poda je jako nezgodna stvar. Strukturni prijenos buke je mučko đubre.
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But there’s a reason. There’s a reason. There’s a reason for this, there’s a reason education sucks, and it’s the same reason that it will never, ever, ever be fixed. It’s never gonna get any better. Don’t look for it. Be happy with what you got. Because the owners of this country don't want that. I'm talking about the real owners now, the real owners, the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the senate, the congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying, lobbying, to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I'll tell you what they don’t want: They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. Thats against their interests. Thats right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table to figure out how badly they’re getting f*cked by a system that threw them overboard 30 f*cking years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you, sooner or later, 'cause they own this f*cking place. It's a big club, and you ain’t in it. You and I are not in the big club. And by the way, it's the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head in their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table is tilted folks. The game is rigged, and nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. Good honest hard-working people -- white collar, blue collar, it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on -- good honest hard-working people continue -- these are people of modest means -- continue to elect these rich c*cksuckers who don’t give a f*ck about them. They don’t give a f*ck about you. They don’t give a f*ck about you. They don't care about you at all -- at all -- at all. And nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. That's what the owners count on; the fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that's being jammed up their assholes everyday. Because the owners of this country know the truth: it's called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.
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Staro 19.01.2025., 07:19   #5484
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Izolacija poda protiv buke je praktički nemoguća. Po tvome upisu sigurno nema plivajućeg poda (estrih) i zato se sve prenosi preko podova kroz zidove... koliko sam skužio, plivajući pod je jedino riješenje.
Tavan, prvo kod sebe možeš stavit knauf na strop i između stropa i knaufa kamenu/staklenu vunu, a onda još možeš i staviti stiropor po podu u potkrovlju.
Sa ovom metodom (spuštanje stropa knaufom) možeš malo smanjiti i buku, ali malo.
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Staro 19.01.2025., 09:13   #5485
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Knauf profile moraš usidriti u strop, tako da se buka opet prenosi.
Manje, al se prenosi

Pod tavana iznad stambenog prostora bih izolirao polaganjem tvrde vude na pod 2-3cm.

Idealno bi bilo izolirati krovište iznutra vunom pa na rogove staviti ili knauf ili direkt OSB
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Staro 19.01.2025., 09:39   #5486
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Ide i folija obaevzno, to mi je rekao.

@Fanatik:A kako se točno radi i slaže...ne znam nisam ulazio sa njime u detalje, rekao mi je da mi je to preskupo ako ne mislim živiti i u potkrovlju (ne mislim). Ali mi je rekao da je to naj metoda ako želiš izolirati kako treba. Isto kao i fasada.
Na grede idu daske cca od 20 do 25 mm. Na daske paro propusna folija. Na foliju idu uzdužno letve radi cirkulacije zraka prema vrhu krova, a na njih poprečne letve na koje se stavlja crijep.
Ispod daski, između greda se stavlja izolacija (vuna ili stiropor), opet paro propusna folija i na nju knauf.
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Staro 19.01.2025., 10:25   #5487
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Mislim da na vunu ide parna brana
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Staro 19.01.2025., 20:05   #5488
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Parna brana ide između stambenog dijela i tavana, dalje nije potrebna.
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Staro 19.01.2025., 20:26   #5489
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Parna brana ide između stambenog dijela i tavana, dalje nije potrebna.
Parna brana ide ispod vune, paropropusna folija iznad (npr. na podaskan krov.), vuna gubi svojstva izolacije ako primi vlagu u sebe.
Treba je hermeticki zatvoriti.
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Staro 20.01.2025., 09:00   #5490
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Da, ispod mineralne vune obavezno nepropusni najlon, iznad može i ne mora parapropusna folija
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