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cccp 12.05.2017. 08:59

Nitko ništa u ovom biznisu ne izbacuje iz sprdnje. Ti proizvodi i njihovi kupci, s druge strane, mogu biti sprdnja. CPU se ne slaže kao lego kockice pa kada konkurencija izbaci CPU sa 16 jezgri, mi dodamo još 4 da konkuriramo. To je dugotrajan proces.

Intel trenutno zaostaje u broju jezgri po socketu (po cijeni) i to se neće tako brzo promijeniti. Naravno broj jezgri nije sva priča. Tu govorim o HEDT tržištu ako su x299 i x399 gotova priča, a čini se da i u serverskom svijetu pobjeđuju, međutim tu je broj jezgri bitan samo za određene segmente.

EDIT: Meni je ipak najzanimljiviji Banded Kestrel SoC i hoće li izbaciti nasljednika AM1 platforme s njim. :)

Gigi1 12.05.2017. 10:08

Naravno, pa to je sve planski, ako zakuha - konkurencijija eventualno ide na raniji launch od originalno najavljenog, ali generalno neke bitijnije/vece preinake nisu moguce.

situacija prema najavama je takva da amd u svim segemntima ima veci core count, nije to bas sad bezveze.

po Kresinom testu 37W manje trosi 1700 od 1800x, sto je osjetno pogotovo kada se core count dodatno poveca

Bariarnil 12.05.2017. 10:17

Citiraj:

Autor cccp (Post 3059318)
Nitko ništa u ovom biznisu ne izbacuje iz sprdnje. Ti proizvodi i njihovi kupci, s druge strane, mogu biti sprdnja. CPU se ne slaže kao lego kockice pa kada konkurencija izbaci CPU sa 16 jezgri, mi dodamo još 4 da konkuriramo. To je dugotrajan proces.

Intel trenutno zaostaje u broju jezgri po socketu (po cijeni) i to se neće tako brzo promijeniti. Naravno broj jezgri nije sva priča. Tu govorim o HEDT tržištu ako su x299 i x399 gotova priča, a čini se da i u serverskom svijetu pobjeđuju, međutim tu je broj jezgri bitan samo za određene segmente.

EDIT: Meni je ipak najzanimljiviji Banded Kestrel SoC i hoće li izbaciti nasljednika AM1 platforme s njim. :)

Intelov najavljeni 12 core je 16core cutdown Xeon, s odsječenim ECC modulom chipa.
Ajmo to postaviti ovako, Intel može staviti 18 core E5 2699 (v3/4? ) pod i7cu na LGA2066, kao što je Nvidia izbacila Titan XP sa 35xx jezgrica pod flagship za 1200 baksi, a kada se trebala pripremiti za Vegu je izbacila puni GP102 čip sa 38xx jezgrica(Titan Xp).
Jasno sad?

Citiraj:

Although we call Xeon E5 v3 an “18-core” processor, to be truthful, there’s just one model (“SKU”) where all 18 are present: the 2.3 GHz, 145W TDP E5-2699 v3. Nevertheless, each of the die configurations in the v3 series is based on an 18-core design that may be scaled down for lower cores.
http://www.datacenterdynamics.com/co...71.fullarticle

nub 12.05.2017. 12:16

Al amdu fakat treba skinut kapu za imena procova i platformi. X399 vs X299, dakle osim što su u istom segmentu i sličnog imena, intel ostaje bez imena za iduću generaciju nakon x299 :roller:

Nadam se da će i finalno ime ostat takvo

Manuel Calavera 12.05.2017. 12:29

trolaju :roller:

Isto je i sa B350

Trbonja 12.05.2017. 12:42

Citiraj:

Autor cccp (Post 3059318)
Nitko ništa u ovom biznisu ne izbacuje iz sprdnje. Ti proizvodi i njihovi kupci, s druge strane, mogu biti sprdnja. CPU se ne slaže kao lego kockice pa kada konkurencija izbaci CPU sa 16 jezgri, mi dodamo još 4 da konkuriramo. To je dugotrajan proces.

Intel trenutno zaostaje u broju jezgri po socketu (po cijeni) i to se neće tako brzo promijeniti. Naravno broj jezgri nije sva priča. Tu govorim o HEDT tržištu ako su x299 i x399 gotova priča, a čini se da i u serverskom svijetu pobjeđuju, međutim tu je broj jezgri bitan samo za određene segmente.

EDIT: Meni je ipak najzanimljiviji Banded Kestrel SoC i hoće li izbaciti nasljednika AM1 platforme s njim. :)

Koje igre pokreću više od 4 jezgri? :)

Bariarnil 12.05.2017. 15:27

Citiraj:

Autor Trbonja (Post 3059422)
Koje igre pokreću više od 4 jezgri? :)

Ček nisam ni ja skonto. Misliš koriste više od 4 jezgre?

Manuel Calavera 12.05.2017. 15:29

Nadam se da se šali kad priča o igrama u kontekstu X399 i X299 platforme. Mislim ono igraju se igre i na takvim konfama, ali nisu glavni razlog uzimanja takvih platformi

Inače ima igara koje koriste i 16 threadova, što naravno ne znači i da ih trebaju ako ih koriste

cccp 12.05.2017. 15:41

i7 7700k je najbolji proc svih vremena.

Citiraj:

Autor Bariarnil (Post 3059366)
Intelov najavljeni 12 core je 16core cutdown Xeon, s odsječenim ECC modulom chipa.
Ajmo to postaviti ovako, Intel može staviti 18 core E5 2699 (v3/4? ) pod i7cu na LGA2066, kao što je Nvidia izbacila Titan XP sa 35xx jezgrica pod flagship za 1200 baksi, a kada se trebala pripremiti za Vegu je izbacila puni GP102 čip sa 38xx jezgrica(Titan Xp).
Jasno sad?

http://www.datacenterdynamics.com/co...71.fullarticle

Nije jasno. Misli na dioničare i koliku maržu mora imati Intel da bi ostao u pogonu i na partnere koji bi taj CPU trebali plaćati koliko puta skuplje. Intel ne može spustiti cijenu koliko to može AMD.

Bariarnil 12.05.2017. 15:49

Citiraj:

Autor cccp (Post 3059497)
i7 7700k je najbolji proc svih vremena.



Nije jasno. Misli na dioničare i koliku maržu mora imati Intel da bi ostao u pogonu i na partnere koji bi taj CPU trebali plaćati koliko puta skuplje. Intel ne može spustiti cijenu koliko to može AMD.



Sada imamo dvosjekli mač. Intel u HEDT procesorima koji konkuriraju R7cama i R5 6core ne može spuštat cijene iz razloga što su im 2011 veliki čipovi. AMD s druge strane, ne može R3 pozicionirat prenisko jer je to sve cutdown R7 kojeg prodaju i za $500. Intel si može priuštit otić tako nisko. Opet u ovom, 12 i 16 core high endu je pitanje samo želi li intel ostati on top i izbaciti i 22core Xeon(primjer) jer na njemu bi mogao ubosti $2000 tek tako čak i kada ima konkurencije(a to nije mala lova).
Pricas o dionicama, a dionicari nisu bili zadovoljni sa nekim planom zarade kod AMD-a i odma vrijednost dionice otišla 25% niže. Misim da nije samo intel (ili nvidia je pravi primjer) da mora držat određenu cijenu i/ili zaradu.

X399 će nam točno pokazat kolko šta treba vrijedit i kako će konkurencija odgovorit, a vjeruj mi, bit će konkurentna jer su kraljevi segmentacije ;)

cccp 12.05.2017. 15:54

OK, ne kužimo se.

DragonSlayer 12.05.2017. 16:12

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cpu..._series_cpus/1

Ha? 7 nanometara, 48c/96t procesori. 38 kW TDP, al štaš. Ugl, ako je ovo išta ko ryzen, ima da intelu podere novu rupu iz koje izlaze "procesori".
Hype aside, šta mislite? 7nm zvuči jako dobro.

Manuel Calavera 12.05.2017. 17:23

Pričalo se o tih "7nm" ranije, to je bliže intelovom 10nm procesu. U svakom slučaju fenomenalno ako dođe i na AM4 proizvode

Bariarnil

Kužiš da je intel navikao na određenu lovu sa tog tržišta, te ima veće troškove (svoje tvornice, masu zaloslenika, masu uloženog itd.), njima je u interesu održati taj "cash flow", a ne biti kraljevi core/thread counta, prepolovit cijene xeonima i sl. S druge strane amd-u je to win win u svakom slučaju, i širenje marketsharea i zarada (kakava god da bude) jer te prihode prije nisu imali i sve će im biti dobro. Intel s druge strane tu može samo izgubiti. Njima je samo pitanje sto im je bolji damage control - ostaviti visoke cijene, pa prodati manje ili sniziti cijene i prodati više. U oba slučaja će im biti manji prihodi nego do sada.

Bariarnil 12.05.2017. 19:30

To je IBM-ov 7nm. Sad kakav je naspram Intela 10nm bumo vidli.

Kad izade X299(i X399) cemo zakljucit sve ;)

Manuel Calavera 12.05.2017. 19:54

Zaključit će se kad dođu rezultati prodaje i marketsharea ;)

Ovdje malo spominju za Q1

Citiraj:

When asked about the impact of AMD’s recently released Ryzen processors the Intel management team reportedly responded saying they hadn’t “seen anything unusual” in terms of their desktop revenue. A piece on Seeking Alpha though has delved into the numbers and despite making a hell of a profit overall they highlight a 7% year-on-year decline in the unit shipments for the desktop platform, despite the average selling price (ASP) going up by around 2%.


Intel claims that’s not related to the AMD competition, but the report suggests that this decline is worth about $150 million while AMD have an estimated increase in desktop sales of around $152 million. Coincidence? Potentially.


The more telling numbers will be from the performance of Intel’s desktop platform throughout the first half of the year, not just the first quarter. Ryzen didn’t even launch until March, so the current drop might just be a taste of things to come for Intel.

Bariarnil 12.05.2017. 20:07

Jedva čekam punu artiljeriju jednih i drugih. To će biti onda to. Nikako da dočekamo pune, kvalitetne proizvode i na cpu i na gpu marketu.

Gigi1 13.05.2017. 10:44

jos malo o x399

Citiraj:

AMD’s upcoming enthusiast 16 core Ryzen “Threadripper” CPUs and the next generation high-end “Whitehaven” platform will reportedly launch on a monstrous 4096 pin socket shared with AMD’s 32 core Naples parts. The brand new enthusiast Threadripper Ryzen lineup and Whitehaven platform will debut at Computex at the beginning of next month.
AMD Debuting Monstrous 16 Core Threadripper CPUs & SP3r2 Socket For Brand New Enthusiast “Whitehaven” Platform

Threadripper CPUs will reportedly be compatible with a modified version of AMD’s SP3 server socket designed for its upcoming Naples server parts. The Threadripper SP3r2 socket shares the same physical specifications and pin count of SP3 with some differences in maximum thermal design power and some minor technicalities in PCB implementation. The primary difference between the two being that SP3 sockets will also be available in dual socket server boards, while the SP3r2 socket will only be available on single socket boards.

Using the SP3 server socket as a foundation allows AMD to introduce significantly larger chips than Intel’s Skylake X parts as well as what the current mainstream AM4 socket allows. In theory, because the SP3r2 and SP3 sockets are physically the same, AMD has the ability to introduce CPUs with up to 32 cores for its high-end desktop Whitehaven platform although we’re not aware of any such plans.

The Whitehaven platform will include support for quad-channel DDR4 memory support, more PCIe lanes and more storage compared to AMD’s X370 on AM4. It will compete directly with Intel’s upcoming HEDT X299 platform and Skylake X CPUs which will feature up to 12 cores.

The upcoming family of enthusiast Threadripper CPUs are considerably larger than the current Ryzen lineup which is why they will not be compatible with AM4. The upcoming enthusiast chips will feature up to 16 cores and 32 threads making them the most powerful desktop CPUs ever introduced in the industry.

The whitehaven platform offers more I/O, storage, significantly more cores, threads and L3 Cache compared to Intel’s upcoming X299. Ryzen has also established AMD’s Zen architecture as the most power efficient x86 micro architecture to date, putting another arrow in the quiver of Whitehaven’s competitiveness.

With a 16 core part in the high-end desktop the Zen architecture is well on its way to displacing Intel’s Extreme edition processors from the performance throne that they’ve long held on to for too long. Threadripper may be the first CPU family from AMD to win the ultimate performance crown since the aptly named “hammer” architecture & Athlon 64 parts hammered Intel’s Extreme Editions nearly 14 years ago.

Manuel Calavera 13.05.2017. 13:36

Citiraj:

Using the SP3 server socket as a foundation allows AMD to introduce significantly larger chips than Intel’s Skylake X parts as well as what the current mainstream AM4 socket allows. In theory, because the SP3r2 and SP3 sockets are physically the same, AMD has the ability to introduce CPUs with up to 32 cores for its high-end desktop Whitehaven platform although we’re not aware of any such plans.
http://www.attendly.com/wp-content/u...5/07/lunch.gif

Bariarnil 13.05.2017. 16:29

Citiraj:

Autor Manuel Calavera (Post 3059770)

Točno. Intel može samo 24 jezgre ako se ne varam, ugurat na 2011 pinova. Zato imaju 3647 za one 28 jezgrene.
S druge strane, takvi čipovi više koštaju za proizvest :) da vidimo ko ima bolje fabrike ;)

Manuel Calavera 13.05.2017. 16:31

To će se kasnije povećavat (ako se može). Sad amd očito ide na 16 jezgri, intel na 12

Inače iz jednog od prethodnih linkova:

Citiraj:

The slides don’t stop at that and start comparing AMD Naples with Intel’s Skylake-SP platform which is also launching mid 2017. AMD says that there’s a 14% advantage of cores per rack that ship with their Naples platform compared to Intel’s. On Intel, a singular rack will consist of 4704 cores while AMD’s Zen based Naples Rack will ship with 5376 cores.
Đizus, let the core war begin :roller:

DragonSlayer 13.05.2017. 23:05

Zanimaju me cijene. 6950x je izaša na nako 1700$, a 10 jezgri. Skylake-x flagship (ono i9 7920x ili kako ga budu zvali, komedija teška) će izać 1800-2000$. Ali nismo do sada imali pogled na cijene bilo čega iznad 8 jezgri od AMDa, pa nemam pojma kakve će cijene bit, nagađam da za flagship bude oko 1100-1200$.

(btw, jedno offtopic pitanje o x299, jel intel stvarno namjerava stavit onaj i7 7640k na x299, 4c/4t procesor za "entuzijaste"? Isprike na izražaju, al koji kurac oni misle da rade?)

Gigi1 14.05.2017. 01:16

Citiraj:

Autor DragonSlayer (Post 3059919)
(btw, jedno offtopic pitanje o x299, jel intel stvarno namjerava stavit onaj i7 7640k na x299, 4c/4t procesor za "entuzijaste"? Isprike na izražaju, al koji kurac oni misle da rade?)

šaltaju visak nastancanih i5 7600k jezgri na drugu platformu da im ne propadnu :D

Manuel Calavera 14.05.2017. 01:21

Još ako iscjede extra 100mhz masa ljudi će govorit "shut up and take my money" :D

Inače pisalo se dosta o tim procesorima u ovoj temi još otkako su se prvi puta počeli spominjati prije par mjeseci tako da se nebih ponavljao

Što se tiče cijena, wccftech se razbacuje sa nekih 1500$ sa intelov 12 core, što je bolje nego 1700$ za 10 core, ali teško bi ikoga oduševile te cijene nakon 320$ za 8c16t core ryzena (doduše nije quad channel i 40+ pci-e lanesa, ali izbacit će i oni svoje takve verzije sigurno po boljim cijenama). Za ryzena od 16c se slažem da 1100-1200$ zvuči realno, no ne znamo koliko amd cijeni pci-e lanese. Intel ih cijeni nekih 30% povećanja cijene na hexama. Ako za 16c računamo 1800X x2 + 30% za lanese i quad channel = 1300$. Najluđi scnearij = 1700 x2 + 15% cca 750$, ali to je preoptimistično IMO. Ispada da su srozali dionice AMD-u jer su se investitori uplašili zbog premalih marži, tako da možda "posole" ovu x399 platformu

DragonSlayer 14.05.2017. 12:36

750-900$ se čini uredu za 12c/24t proc, ali tih 1500$ za 12c/24t od intela mi je sumnjivo. To bi značilo da bi trebali srozat cijenu 10c/20t za preko 500$, što bi učinilo ostatkom 6950x beskorisnim jer ih nitko nebi kupio više i samo bi stajali sa strane.

Bariarnil 14.05.2017. 14:37

Citiraj:

Autor DragonSlayer (Post 3060020)
750-900$ se čini uredu za 12c/24t proc, ali tih 1500$ za 12c/24t od intela mi je sumnjivo. To bi značilo da bi trebali srozat cijenu 10c/20t za preko 500$, što bi učinilo ostatkom 6950x beskorisnim jer ih nitko nebi kupio više i samo bi stajali sa strane.

GTX 1080Ti anyone?

Manuel Calavera 14.05.2017. 14:57

Citiraj:

Autor DragonSlayer (Post 3060020)
750-900$ se čini uredu za 12c/24t proc, ali tih 1500$ za 12c/24t od intela mi je sumnjivo. To bi značilo da bi trebali srozat cijenu 10c/20t za preko 500$, što bi učinilo ostatkom 6950x beskorisnim jer ih nitko nebi kupio više i samo bi stajali sa strane.

Mislim da njima nije nikakav problem to sniziti preko 500$, pa marža na tom proizvodu je suluda. To je IMO jedna od najspornijih stavki kod intela, ta "price delta". Imaš 8c16t za 1000$ i onda za dvije dodatne jezgre još platiš 70% više... Isto i u mainstreamu, hyperthreading platiš negdje skoro 70% na quadu (cca 1500 - 2500kn, najjeftiniji i5 vs najjeftiniji zaključani i7).

Ionako mislim da im prodaja tog modela nije baš bila bajna, a nakon izlaska ryzena i najava x299 i x399 mislim da nitko normalan više ne kupuje 2011-v3. Čak nisam siguran koliko bi od ovih što već imaju jeftinije modele na 2011v3 poteglo tih sniženih 1200$ za 6950X. Vjerujem da nebi ništa dirali il bi mjenjali platformu opet

DragonSlayer 14.05.2017. 17:39

Ma nije njima problem spustit cijenu, ali upravo zbog tih razmaka u cijeni sumnjam da će bit puno jeftiniji. Sad imaju puno veći lineup nego sa x99 platformom, a da bi držali do tog "HEDT" imena, i onaj "i7" sa 4c/4t će bit brutalno precijenjen. Računaj na to ovako, 6900k je isti vrag ko i 5960x. Cijena im je identična, iako su različita generacija. Možemo računat da će 10c/10t cijena ostat ista.

@Bariarnil

Iako bi to bilo dovoljno da rasplače bilo koga, Intel, iako je više raširen nego AMD, ne smiju napravit još gluposti ko preporučit da ljudi ne OCaju otključan CPU. nevidiju boli lijeva špigeta za market, jer znaju da će ih ljudi kupovat. oni da zalipe svoj sticker na špaker i stave jednu nulu više u cijenu, ljudi bi opet kupovali to, škot je to dosta dobro objasnio u svojim videima.

Bariarnil 14.05.2017. 18:53

Citiraj:

Autor DragonSlayer (Post 3060081)
Ma nije njima problem spustit cijenu, ali upravo zbog tih razmaka u cijeni sumnjam da će bit puno jeftiniji. Sad imaju puno veći lineup nego sa x99 platformom, a da bi držali do tog "HEDT" imena, i onaj "i7" sa 4c/4t će bit brutalno precijenjen. Računaj na to ovako, 6900k je isti vrag ko i 5960x. Cijena im je identična, iako su različita generacija. Možemo računat da će 10c/10t cijena ostat ista.

@Bariarnil

Iako bi to bilo dovoljno da rasplače bilo koga, Intel, iako je više raširen nego AMD, ne smiju napravit još gluposti ko preporučit da ljudi ne OCaju otključan CPU. nevidiju boli lijeva špigeta za market, jer znaju da će ih ljudi kupovat. oni da zalipe svoj sticker na špaker i stave jednu nulu više u cijenu, ljudi bi opet kupovali to, škot je to dosta dobro objasnio u svojim videima.

Da, slažem se. Ali i da intel napravi to što je NV napravila, realno, korisnici bi kako god bili sretniji. Dobiješ više za manje nego prije(dok ima konkurencije).

Manuel Calavera 15.05.2017. 10:38

http://oi63.tinypic.com/2cshyj7.jpg

http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-9-lineup-threadripper/

Brko 15.05.2017. 12:33

A đe je model "iljadudevestodevesprva"?

Koji kretenske brojke. Ni sebi ni svome...

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Manuel Calavera 15.05.2017. 12:49

Stvarno, zašto nema '91 :D

To izgleda kao da si je neka ekipa po svojim godištima i godištem djece podijelila. Ono kad prva dva broja već moraju biti 19 yolo :D

No na stranu imena, prema ovome "leaku" svi imaju 44 lanesa, te dobre clockove s obzirom na broj threadova. Prema istom linku samo 2 najskuplja intela (10 i 12 core) imaju 44 lanesa što nema logike

DragonSlayer 15.05.2017. 14:52

44 lanea, quad channel, taj 1977 se čini optimalan. 14c/28t, uredu frekvencija i ne jede previše struje, izgleda optimalno. Ne mogu ne biti optimističan. Good job AMD, you're bringing hope. Sad samo da i Vega bude ovako dobra, al to već sumnjam. ljudi imaju previše nevidijinih bubica u ušima da je prestanu kupovat. Zanimaju me cijene. Btw, intel uobičajeno pobjeđuje (6900k vs 1800x) zbog lakšeg OCa, tu su negdje sa IPCjem, kako će onda izać 7920x vs 1976x? Jer tu će negdi bit frekvencije, a s obzirom da u zadnje vrijeme čini se da imaju problema sa temperaturama, a 12 jezgri će definitivno vuć struje pri višim clockovima.

Manuel Calavera 15.05.2017. 17:01

Prema leaku intel ima dosta veće clockove. Skylake i ryzen ipc je poznat. Dakle singlecore će biti otprilike biti kao ovo što sad imamo na desktopu. Međutoa ako pričamo o 10-16 core kupcima njima je očito multithread bitan, tako da bi ryzen tu mogao još bolje proći nego na AM4, jer neće biti gayming drame.

lobo64 15.05.2017. 20:45

1 privitaka
AMD kućni ljubimac.

Manuel Calavera 15.05.2017. 21:18

Citiraj:

AMD Is Set To Outperform Intel In The X86 Space

...

Servers

Servers tend to have some of the most demanding needs in the computing space and use chips that typically offer much higher performance than desktop chips. Once AMD lost competitiveness in the CPU space over a decade back, Intel has come to increasingly dominate the server segment. It is now estimated that Intel has over 99% of the server market space.

AMD, using its Zen core, has come up with a server CPU called Naples which beats out the best Intel offers today (image below shows comparison between Intel and AMD server chips). The Naples CPU is expected to be released in the current quarter.

There is no doubt that Intel will respond to AMD's server forays but Intel's server CPU/platform design is an older one and is unlikely to keep up with Naples. Zen, being a newer core, likely has much more potential for improvement than the decade plus old Intel CPU core.

Even in the case Intel leapfrogs in the near term, it will be difficult for Intel to stop AMD from gaining a meaningful market share. In this context, one of the highlights of the AMD Q1 earnings call was a statement from CEO, Dr. Lisa Su:

"We have now seeded thousands of Naples processors across an extensive set of OEMs, end users and partners, and remain on track for our first Naples products to launch this quarter."

This commentary makes it likely that the server market views Naples as a credible alternative to Intel server solutions. If Intel had made a leapfrog design in a comparable time frame, it is difficult to imagine that AMD could have seeded so many servers.

The ASP on these server chips is an order of magnitude higher than desktop chips and the margins are extremely high (likely north of 70%). While the margin profile is attractive, given the stringent requirements of the server market, Naples is likely to see a slow ramp. Within the server space, we expect AMD to aggressively pursue the cloud market which has the potential to ramp much faster than the enterprise market.

It should also be noted that server platform is one area where AMD can be very aggressive in pricing as it knows that Intel cannot afford to crater its own pricing. With 99% market share, any price cuts would mean that Intel's bleeding would be very profuse.

From AMD perspective, the ASP drop in the server segment would be temporary. As AMD wins several designs, future versions of the server chips can be used to increase ASPs to levels that are more consistent with Intel positioning.

Will Manufacturing Be A Challenge?

Historically, AMD had its own fabrication facilities and the Company was in a constant race to keep up with Intel. Intel, with its massive volumes and operational advantages, could stay a generation, and sometimes two generations ahead of AMD. This caused AMD to invest disproportionately in its fab facilities. However, once the Company was relegated to the low end of the x86 space, it no longer had the wherewithal to maintain the high capex or own its own fab. As a result, AMD spun off its fab in 2009 and became a fabless semiconductor company.

As part of the terms of the spinoff and later sale, AMD has been tied to its spin-off, Global Foundries, through long term manufacturing agreements. Recently, AMD updated its supply agreements with Global Foundries to give AMD more flexibility with manufacturing. While AMD had to pay for this flexibility, AMD now has the capability to use Samsung and TSMC (NYSE:TSM) as additional fabs if necessary.

Due to this flexibility, AMD no longer has an overhead problem or a process roadmap disadvantage compared to Intel as it had in the prior years. To exploit its advantage, AMD management is already spending considerable amount of money on moving the Zen family to state of the art 7nm masks.

In this context, a few comments about TSMC are in order. We believe there is a good chance that AMD needs to tap on to Samsung or TSMC to do the volume ramp necessary to get to the required volumes. To get a better perspective of the Intel and TSMC, please see our earlier articles on the subject:

Intel And Taiwan Semiconductor: A Tale Of Two Cities
Intel Vs. Taiwan Semi - It's The Client, Stupid

The bottom line is that, in 2018, for the first time in the x86 history, AMD may have both architectural and process advantage over Intel, and due to its foundry relationships, AMD will not be unduly burdened by fab expenses for capacity ramp. At the same time, Intel is now increasingly burdened with its manufacturing strategy and is increasingly at a risk of losing its traditional process advantage to TSMC.

Intel Competitive Response

It should be clear that Intel does not have the product line today to stop AMD from encroaching the high end, high margin parts of x86 business. To stop AMD's momentum, Intel not only has to come up with a new CPU architecture and platform, but it also needs a high-end GPU architecture which it traditionally lacked.

As Intel develops its own technology options, it is likely to resort extensively to marketing and bundling options to stall AMD's progress in every which way they can.

However, contrary to some investors' and analysts' fear, Intel is extremely unlikely to initiate a price war with AMD. Unlike in the past, when the PC market was growing, Intel has no other growth areas where it can take shelter. Given these companies relative market shares and given the AMD has a competitive product, price war is likely to destroy Intel's profitability without much in the form of offsetting strategic benefits.

Given the dynamics, Intel's response is likely to be not a price war but an all-out effort to outrun AMD with new product introductions. Intel certainly has the resources to pull such a plan off but such an approach takes time. That time creates a window of opportunity for AMD.

What Lies Ahead For AMD?

AMD stock fell by about 30% after the Q1 earnings call due to concerns about soft revenue and margin guidance. While we agree that the guidance is soft, we find the expectation that Ryzen will ramp hard within a month after product release to be unreasonable. Not only does it take time for the Ryzen platform to mature to the satisfaction of large OEMs like Lenovo, Dell, and HP, these large manufacturers work around set product introduction cycles.

Most of the big manufacturers refresh their products three times a year - once for spring, once for back-to-school, and once for Christmas. Ryzen missed the Spring refresh cycle which means that AMD chips at these big manufacturers are unlikely to be designed before the back-to-school season. Until the back to school demand sets-in, AMD's volumes are restricted to small specialty manufacturers who are nimble and who do not necessarily follow the product introduction cycles the big vendors follow.

Consequently, Ryzen has only been available at low volume niche manufacturers. While some investors may be disappointed with the Company's low Q2 guidance, the reality is that there is unlikely to be significant volume for Ryzen until June. It will be late Q2 or early Q3 before the larger PC manufacturers start driving volumes. (On the other hand, if AMD' volumes do not ramp meaningfully in Q3, that would be indicative of a technical, manufacturing, or marketing problem.)

Having done all the tough technology work, now it is just a question of AMD sales force executing before AMD can start realizing the TAM. Once the salesforce does its job and the volumes kick in, the Company's gross margins should see a dramatic expansion. While it is difficult to estimate how high AMD's margins can go, we estimate that the Company's margins can easily grow between 10 and 20 percentage points over the next several quarters as all the high-end chips including server chips ramp up.

Couple the TAM expansion with margin expansion, AMD's profitability is set to grow rapidly from the current levels. While we can confidently forecast exceptional growth for AMD, the exact nature of growth will be difficult to predict since it depends on factors including AMD's product release dates, customer adoption, and Intel's competitive response. When a Company is about to hit the knee of the S-curve on a new product, the exact timing of the ramp is difficult to predict. With AMD set to go through this tricky phase with many different products, forecasting can be difficult. However, the ramp of the product will be steep once the design wins commence in earnest.

Investors must ignore the emotion around the stock and think carefully about a simple dynamic. In a two player market, the weak player suddenly and surprisingly becomes competitive. What happens to the market share? What will that do to both the players' prospects? And, how is each likely to respond? That is the lens in which we need to look at the upcoming AMD vs. Intel battle.

We have modeled various scenarios for the take rate of Zen architecture and believe that AMD has the potential to get to a $20B to $50B in valuation in a span of two to three years depending on various assumptions. With the stock trading at about $10B in market cap, this implies a 100% to 400% increase in stock price over the next two to three years.

We expect that, given AMD's checkered history, it will take time for the stock to get to full valuation because very few investors believe AMD can outrun Intel. It will be a volatile stock because investors and analysts are likely to react quickly to bad news and fall prey to negative rumors - the mentality around this stock is going to be "sell now and ask questions later". So, holding on to this stock could be gut wrenching. It is going to be a roller coaster ride but, for the investors who can handle the ride, this will likely be a great stock to own for the two to three years.

Key Risks To Investment Thesis

There are fundamentally two risks to the AMD investment thesis. The first and foremost is that Intel is a giant in the x86 space and a formidable opponent. Intel will have more tools at their disposal than meets the eye. Tech industry is replete with stories of companies that underestimate the power and resources of a market leader and meet with failure. For example, Intel may use its massive resources to materially accelerate its product platform beyond what seems likely to be the case. While such an event it unlikely, it is still a risk that cannot be ignored.

In regards to the above risk, AMD's competitiveness, or the lack there of, at any point in time, will be on full display. Once it becomes evident that AMD is about to lose it technological edge and the Company cannot compete at the high end, it is no longer wise to stay long AMD.

The second key risk to AMD thesis is that there could be unexpected execution problems at AMD. It is easy for hardware, software, or platform issues to delay the launch of key products materially. Sometimes, such delays can be debilitating. While this risk is difficult to see until it materializes, it appears to be low since the first product with the Zen core has already been launched.

What Can We Expect From The Analyst Day?

With the analyst day coming with about two weeks of the Q1 earnings call, we believe that there is very little that investors are expecting from AMD on 5/16.

We are skeptical of this view and doubt that the analyst day will be a boring one.

Considering the dynamics at play, we believe that the corporate metrics that the Company has been using in the past are no longer valid. We believe that the Company is likely to present material good news on several different vectors:

- Firstly, we believe the Company will show its updated x86 product roadmap to alleviate concerns about competition from Intel

- Secondly, we expect the Company to present competitive details about Vega - its upcoming high end graphics core. Vega can materially change the Company's position against NVidia and is an important product to watch.

- Biggest upside is likely to come from a reset of corporate gross margin targets - while one can argue this is unlikely given the recent guidance, we are hard pressed to see how the Company can continue with its current gross margin guidance. We expect a 10% to 20% improvement in gross margins over the coming months and believe that a guidance revision is more likely than not. We expect the corporate gross margin targets to jump at least 5 points.

- The Company may revise annual revenue guidance. Once again this would appear unlikely given that guidance was given only about two weeks back. However, we believe that management heavily sandbagged 2017 guidance and an update is possible.
Combining all the above factors, we find it likely that the analyst day on 5/16 will very likely lead to a very significant pop in the stock price.

Prognosis

Assuming AMD can gain competitiveness at the high end of x86 market as current plans indicate, there appears very little that Intel can do to stop AMD from growing. Without considering the graphics aspects or addressing emerging markets, AMD's near term x86 TAM is likely about 10x what it today when measured in revenue.

In terms of execution risk, the release of Ryzen 7, Ryzen 5, and the impending release of Naples server chip indicates that the Company is past its most sensitive phase in terms of catastrophic failure.

With or without analyst day pop, we would be looking to increase our position in the stock over the next few days, weeks, and months.

Manuel Calavera 16.05.2017. 22:25

Naples će se zvati EPYC

http://oi67.tinypic.com/2dikc3r.jpg

Skoro ko šnita tosta :D

http://oi68.tinypic.com/fjpzs4.jpg

http://webcastevents.com/events/amd/...ive/player.htm

Cuky 16.05.2017. 22:51

A daj ne seri. Jebeno :D

sti 16.05.2017. 23:16

Koje krme od procesora :D

Cuky 16.05.2017. 23:31

Najjakiji komentar:

Zen became RyZen

will:
Vega become VEGAN?
:D

Manuel Calavera 17.05.2017. 00:22

Fakat idu na "7nm" već sa zen 2. To nisam očekivao

Evo i mediji

AMD Unveils “EPYC” CPUs Featuring Up To 32 Cores & 64 Threads For The Datacenter

AMD Zen CPU Roadmap: Zen 2 With 7nm Process Due 2018, Zen 3 With 7nm+ Process in 2019 – Aimed at High-Performance Desktop and Datacenter Processors

AMD Unveils 16 Core Threadripper CPUs, The “World’s Fastest” For High End Desktops

Fulao sam ovaj dio kad su X399 procesore najavljivali


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