Seagate 7200.11 masovno umiru!

[lukas1234]

Nesto je poslo krivo-pokrenuo sam firmware i kad sam restarto windowse,uopce ne pokazuje disk kak spada nego pokazuje da ima samo 32 mb.Disk se vidi u device manageru i detectdrive od seagate.Ima ko ideju zbog cega pokazuje samo 32 mb?

[Sultan]

Autor lukas1234

Nesto je poslo krivo-pokrenuo sam firmware i kad sam restarto windowse,uopce ne pokazuje disk kak spada nego pokazuje da ima samo 32 mb.Disk se vidi u device manageru i detectdrive od seagate.Ima ko ideju zbog cega pokazuje samo 32 mb?

1TB Seagate - Capacity only 32mb

Skini SeaTools pa pomoću njega pokušaj staviti maksimalan kapacitet.

[lukas1234]

Kak tocno da to napravim?Kolko vidim sea tools ima samo nekakve testove i nista drugo.Aha vidim da trebam skinuti verziju za dos.

[Sultan]

Autor lukas1234

Kak tocno da to napravim?Kolko vidim sea tools ima samo nekakve testove i nista drugo.Aha vidim da trebam skinuti verziju za dos.

Da, trebaš skinit verziju za DOS.
Seatools for DOS tutorial Ovdje možeš pogledati što trebaš raditi. Znači ono Set Capacity to Max.

[lukas1234]

Eto usao sam u sea toolse i stavio set native to MAX.No nesto cudno je sad:
u disk managment vidim 4 particije sa 1.5 tb ukupno kapaciteta kad ono disk ima samo 1 tb.Pogledaj sliku gore da vidis.Sto sljedece?

A ustvari izgleda da su zmijesala prijasnja i nova particija,dok sam zbriso tu staru particiju nestala je i sad je opet 1 tb full size.
Samo glupo sto se treba ponovno formatirati a bilo 200 gb raznih podataka na tome.

[Gilbert5]

Ne vjerujem, upravio mi uginuo seagate-maxtor 500GB 11.

Sve instalacije igara su mi bile gore....

Edit: Sada opet "malo" radi....

[lukas1234]

Autor Gilbert5

Ne vjerujem, upravio mi uginuo seagate-maxtor 500GB 11.

Sve instalacije igara su mi bile gore....

Edit: Sada opet "malo" radi....

Ja sam isto izgubio podatke na ovom terabajtnom no ono najbitnije sam backupiro a ostatak cu vratiti undelete programom.

[Enter Sandman]

Jedno pitanjce, radi se o 320as 500gb, stavljen gore sd1a, no evo danas windowsi ga upravo ne vide, restarto uso u bios tamo ga ima, vratio se u win i sve sljaka? Zanima me dal je to neka predispozicija da bu prducno ili vista ... po tavanu!

[Gilbert5]

Autor Enter Sandman

Jedno pitanjce, radi se o 320as 500gb, stavljen gore sd1a, no evo danas windowsi ga upravo ne vide, restarto uso u bios tamo ga ima, vratio se u win i sve sljaka? Zanima me dal je to neka predispozicija da bu prducno ili vista ... po tavanu!

Tak i meni, malo nestane i nakon restarta sve normalno.

Kako da ga reklamiram, poslat ce me vkurac i reć da smanjim dozu.

[Ivan_1]

Autor Gilbert5

Tak i meni, malo nestane i nakon restarta sve normalno.

Kako da ga reklamiram, poslat ce me vkurac i reć da smanjim dozu.

hm...vasi rezultati flashanja su me odgovorili da to napravim i svom ST3500320AS

Uostalom reklamiraj ga....ne spominji bilo kakva cackanja sa firmwerom i mozda prode

sto smo na kraju zakljucili, jeli bolje cekati sa original firmverom da (mozda) umre ili flashnuti s novim i opet imati problema?
sa svojim diskom nisam imao problema u dosadasnjih 8 mjeseci koliko ga imam.

[Gemmy]

uf nakon ovog ne zelim ni pokusavati flashati bios

rade ce sluziti kao backup nekih nevaznih podataka koje se lako nadoknade, pa ako/kad koji od njih vrisne ide na reklamaciju, za sada oba 2 rade ok

[quazar912]

hm, ja imam baš taj falšani diski od lani 5. mjesec - za sad radi dobro, temp stabilnih 35°, napunjen je 90%, komp se gasi skoro svaki dan...jel da očekujem "santu leda" pa da počnem odmah podatke spašavati sa "čamcima za spašavanje" (imam ih dovoljno za sve podatke) il da samo napravim upgrade firmwarea???

Autor quazar912

hm, ja imam baš taj falšani diski od lani 5. mjesec - za sad radi dobro, temp stabilnih 35°, napunjen je 90%, komp se gasi skoro svaki dan...jel da očekujem "santu leda" pa da počnem odmah podatke spašavati sa "čamcima za spašavanje" (imam ih dovoljno za sve podatke) il da samo napravim upgrade firmwarea???

Imam ja 3 takva diska, pa šta? Ne želim se igrat sa firmwareom, prvo jer to nikad nisam radio a onda zato što želim da imam čistu garanciju jer nisam siguran da ce mi ju priznat ako nesto budem radio na disku.. Na tvom mjestu ja ne bi ništa radio, ako crkne, imaš garanciju, a važni podaci se ionako ne čuvaju na disku.. Pod važni mislim one po život bitne.. Jer nijedan disk nije siguran i to se zna, uvijek postoji šansa da ćeš jednog jutra pritisnut "power" tipku a disk samo cvrknut: cvvvvvvrk

[Old Iggy]

Autor Nybelung

Imam ja 3 takva diska, pa šta? Ne želim se igrat sa firmwareom, prvo jer to nikad nisam radio a onda zato što želim da imam čistu garanciju jer nisam siguran da ce mi ju priznat ako nesto budem radio na disku.. Na tvom mjestu ja ne bi ništa radio, ako crkne, imaš garanciju, a važni podaci se ionako ne čuvaju na disku.. Pod važni mislim one po život bitne.. Jer nijedan disk nije siguran i to se zna, uvijek postoji šansa da ćeš jednog jutra pritisnut "power" tipku a disk samo cvrknut: cvvvvvvrk

"Igranje" sa FW-om je redovna procedura odrzavanja, nema veze s gibitkom jamstva, a moze puno pomoci u zivotu.

Ovo s vaznim podacima i diskom... Ne mogu se sjetiti pouzdanijeg medija od diska.

[quazar912]

Autor Old Iggy

Ovo s vaznim podacima i diskom... Ne mogu se sjetiti pouzdanijeg medija od diska.

možda CD/DVD??? jer imam neke CDe iz 80tih i početka 90tih - nikakvih problema!!! nisam ni čuo da je CD/DVD sam-od-sebe prdno!!! dok sa HDDom nikad ne znaš...

[dh41400]

Upisi "cyclic redundancy check error" u svemoguci Google... imas i link u sigu

[Old Iggy]

Autor quazar912

možda CD/DVD??? jer imam neke CDe iz 80tih i početka 90tih - nikakvih problema!!! nisam ni čuo da je CD/DVD sam-od-sebe prdno!!! dok sa HDDom nikad ne znaš...

Imas data CD-ove iz 80-tih? Dobar...

Bitni podaci se nikad ne cuvaju na jednom mediju ni na jednom mjestu. Jedino je pitanje koliko cijenis vlastito vrijeme. Onda ces vidjeti da u kombinaciji pouzdanost / kapacitet / cijena HDD nema konkurenta.

[Roberto]

CD/DVD i pouzdanost uglavnom ne mogu biti u istoj rečenici. Imam i ja CD-a starih desetak godina koji rade, a imam i backupova na CDima od prije dvije-tri godine koje nemogu koristiti...


Kolko god diskovi bili manjkavi, još uvijek su idealan izbor za backup

[marko_1]

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Seagate 1TB epicfail - malo tehnickih detalja
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:53:09 +0000 (UTC)
From: private
Organization: private
Newsgroups: hr.comp.hardver

Koga zanima, na slashdotu se javio netko očito iz seagatea pa je poslao par
detalja o sranjima koja im se događaju (i jedan duži komentar gnjevnog
korisnika, u sredini copy pastea):

http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/21/0052236

THE FACTS (Score:5, Interesting)
by maxtorman (1457897) on Wednesday January 21, @01:43AM (#26542735)
I work for Seagate. I was there when the fit hit the shan, and I saw
everything going in internally, as well as externally.
I really love my job, so please excuse the sock-puppet nature that creating
a brand new account and claiming to be an authority on the subject I must
seem to be. But I am a geek, and I really think you all need to know the
true story behind the scenes.

This whole thing started with the 1.5 Terabyte drives. It had a stuttering
issue, which at first we all thought was a simple bad implementation of SATA
on common chipsets. Seagate engineers promptly jumped in and worked to try
to duplicate the issue and prove where the problem was. This wasn't a
massive rush as 1.5tb drives are what? 5% of the drives on the market. When
it became obvious that the issue was more widespread, they buckled down and
put out a couple of firmware revisions to fix it.

Now, in the 1.5tb drives, there are 2 main revisions. the the product line
that gets the CC* firmware, and the line that gets the SD* firmware. They
came out with firmware CC1H and SD1A to fix these issues and started issuing
them.

But, seagate has always been restrictive of handing out their firmware, so
such updates required calling in with your serial so that the people who had
access to hand out the firmware could check a) model, b) part number, and c)
current firmware just to make absolutely sure that they were giving the
right firmware out. This has been a procedre that has worked for YEARS up
until now.

Then the bricking issue came to their attention. It took so long because
it's an issue that's hard to track down - pretty much the journal or log
space in the firmware is written to if certain events occur. IF the drive is
powered down when there are 320 entries in this journal or log, then when it
is powered back up, the drive errors out on init and won't boot properly -
to the point that it won't even report it's information to the BIOS.

This is a rare, but still obviously bad issue. Up until now, we all figured
it was just some standard type of failure, as it was such a rare event, so
we'd RMA the drives.

So, for whatever reason, mid management started freaking out (as it could be
a liability for seagate, I suspect - ontop of the already potentially liable
issue of the stuttering problem causing drives to fail in RAIDs). So, they
pushed the release of the SD1A firmware to the general public. They took a
few days to 'test', though it was mostly just including some code in the
batch file that kicks off the firmware updater, to check that it is a BRINKS
drive, and the proper model number. Then it was kicked out to the public.

Please understand, this firmware had to go through five different checks to
make sure it applies to the specific conditions to qualify sending to a
customer, before now. 5 chances for us to go your drive needs the other (or
none) firmware update. Suddenly, it's down to ONE check, and even that was
more designed for a contingency just incase the wrong firmware was sent out.

Of course, it starts bricking drives.

Right now, the engineers are crapping themselves, the firmware's been
pulled, the support agents are told to say "The firmware will be released

soon" and no real procedure to fix this issue is in place. Our phones are
flooded so bad that it locks the system up when there are too many calls in
queue, and emails are coming in at hundreds an hour.

We simply cannot keep up.

The good news is, the chance of your drive simply not spinning up one day is
very low. And for those of you who flashed the wrong firmware - be patient.
It's not bricked, just unable to write data to the platters properly. When
they have a *GOOD* firmware out, a new flash should un-brick the drives. If
not, flashing it back to SD15 should make it work again.

Seagate really pushes the idea of being open and honest as much as we can
without being sued to hell. They let agents make choices and use their
skills instead of scripting us to death. They worked hard to bring their
support back to the USA.

Seagate does care about their customers. They just got caught with their
pants down, twice in a very short period of time! So, they're wanting to
double, triple, and quadruple check the firmware so it doesn't brick anymore
drives.

As for why it takes so long before an issue is reported and before seagate
makes an announcement - we get a dozen 'reports' of issues that are really
just one-off problems a day. It takes time for an issue to be 'significant'
enough to escalate to the product teams, and time before they can provide a
fix.

I hope this clears up a few things. I may or may not be able to answer
questions if you have any.



A victims point of view (Score:5, Informative)
by jupp201 (1458041) on Wednesday January 21, @07:43AM (#26544611)
I am one of the victims and your report confirmed all the problems which I
expected to occur inside your company. I previously worked with an
electronic giant and the problems are just too similar.

The catastrophic problems which Seagate is facing now could have been
prevented - if there would have been one single person in customer service
who would have cared and pushed the issue, which was known for months, up to
the right people. A little googling some months ago would have proven that
this issue is far bigger than a "one time" incident.

After all it doesn't happen every day that Data Recovery companies announce
with joy that they are able to handle widespread 7200.11 firmware problems.
Or that the two major companies which provide recovery solutions race for
being the first to have a two click solution for this cash cow.

Data recovery companies were flooded with drives. They figured out an easy
way to fix the firmware and kept it secret. They made a great profit,
charging prices as if it was a hardware failure.

Seagate Datarecovery did the same by quoting up to 1800 USD for a 10 minute
fix. Although I am sure that they were the only ones not aware of the easy
fix.

The problem with the undetectable bios drives really isn't new. Your
customer service knew it for a long time, but they are paid so little and
probably have such strict procedures that they don't care about Seagates
customers and no one dared to report the drive failures as a major incident.
Everyone shut up about it and the people which are responsible and do care
only learned about it months later when (or shortly before) it got out to
the press.

Seagate had months of time to fix it. Two months ago when my drive broke,
there was already plenty of information about the problem on the net. The
only one who would deny any problem was Seagate.

I warned your board moderator of the disaster which will strike Seagate
months ago. I tried to show him that these were not normal failure rates but
the poorly paid guy didn't care.

The email support who takes two weeks to respond, and the phone and live
support were just as ignorant.

There were people reporting how 4 out of 6 drives broke within weeks, and
Seagate would only respond that such failure rates are normal.

People on the Seagate boards were constantly reporting the problem, but your
board moderator shut them up. Threads where getting deleted and locked,
including a big thread where the community was working on a fix. The reason,
according to Seagate, was that it added nothing to the community.

The board moderator would consistently tell everyone that there is no known
problem with the drive - the same message as your customer service.

It went as far as blocking links in private messages to a posting on another
board which could help the victims. So how could Seagate expect from those
people now to actually believe that the company cares?

The posting on the new board had within a short time 10.000 views. That's
when things started to get out of hand for Seagate.

People were pissed off for months about Seagate. Everyone knew that the
firmware was broken, but the company denied any problems. We knew that it is
not that difficult to recover the data if you have the tools and knowhow,
but the company wouldn't give any assistance. Many would have accepted the
fate if the drive would truly be broken. But not if it is inaccessible
because of a firmware bug which makes every single drive a -clicking- time
bomb.

People everywhere were calling Seagate harddrives junk drives which are so
unreliable that they will never buy them again.

So I, as many others, went on to warn every single person we knew about the
problem with Seagate drives. The hilarious/sad thing is that before, I would
recommend Seagate to everyone I knew. If someone would ask me which drive to
buy I would reply with no doubt: Seagate.

This could have been prevented if Seagate would have acknowledged the
problem much earlier. I wasted day after day, trying to find a solution how
to recover my drive. I have backups - but not of the most recent data.

I had to find out that my Seagate drive had over 35% reported failures on
Newegg. My new Western Digital drive got 100% positive ratings.

Seagate lost much more money because of the negative publicity from its
customers than they could have ever spent by training a junior technician
the A-B-C steps how to fix the drive within a few minutes.

Some weeks ago it finally got into the press and as expected a few days
later we got a reply from Seagate. The message finally hit the important
people in the company which do care about company image and which understand
that people won't buy from Seagate if they don't trust that the brand cares
about the data on its drives.

I also have Seagate ES drives and will replace them with Western Digital.
Every time I hear them clicking I get reminded to never buy Seagate again.
Even if Seagate says that the clicking noise is alright.

The only reason why now, months later, Seagate seems to care about its
customers is because it got out to the major press. Most of the journalists
were actually not very well informed and just copy/pasted each other. The
problem is much bigger than they wrote.



Re:THE FACTS (Score:5, Interesting)
by maxtorman (1457897) on Wednesday January 21, @03:36AM (#26543293)
It was never designed to be a public release. The script checks two things..
to make sure it's a BRINKS or a MOOSE drive, and to check the model number.
If you get the firmware from the torrents (it's out there) and tear it apart
with uniextract, you can see the batch file and what it checks for. It's a
program that was built back in the 90's and used ever since! You remove
those 2 checks, and it'll happily flash that IBM or Western Digital drive
with the seagate firmware as well.




Re:A thank-you! (and some questions) (Score:5, Informative)
by maxtorman (1457897) on Wednesday January 21, @03:52AM (#26543359)
I'll answer your questions to the best of my ability, and as honestly as I
can! I'm no statistician, but the 'drive becoming inaccessable at boot-up'
is pretty much a very slim chance - but when you have 10 million drives in
the field, it does happen. The conditions have to be just right - you have
to reboot just after the drive writes the 320th log file to the firmware
space of the drive. this is a log file that's written only occasionally,
usually when there are bad sectors, missed writes, etc... might happen every
few days on a computer in a nin-RAID home use situation.. and if that log
file is written even one time after the magic #320, it rolls over the oldest
file kept on the drive and there's no issue. It'll only stop responding IF
the drive is powered up with log file #320 being the latest one written... a
perfect storm situation. IF this is the case, then seagate is trying to put
in place a procedure where you can simply ship them the drive, they hook it
up to a serial controller, and re-flashed with the fixed firmware. That's
all it takes to restore the drive to operation! As for buying new drives,
that's up to you. None of the CC firmware drives were affected - only the SD
firmware drives. I'd wait until later in the week, maybe next week, until
they have a known working and properly proven firmware update. If you were
to have flashed the drives with the 'bad' firmware - it would disable any
read/write functions to the drive, but the drive would still be accessible
in BIOS and a very good chance that flashing it back to a previous SD
formware (or up to the yet to be released proven firmware) would make it all
better. Oh, and RAID0 scares me by it's very nature... not an 'if' but
'when' the RAID 0 craps out and all data is lost - but I'm a bit jaded from
too much tech support!



Re:THE FACTS (Score:5, Interesting)
by maxtorman (1457897) on Wednesday January 21, @04:24AM (#26543541)
As I've noted below, it was an emergency release that shouldn't have been,
and was never designed for release to the general public.

They should have redesigned the delivery system, but there was too much
public pressure on them to get a fox out *now*...

But then again, it was somewhat their own damn fault - if they had just came
out an explained the details of the issue to everyone instead of keeping it
in-house, people would have realized quickly it wasn't as dangerous a
situation as it seems at first glance. Just inconvenient to the few who run
into it more then anything. But the ambulance chasing lawyers smelled blood
during the 1.5Tb issue and forced management into a hole.




Re:THE FACTS (Score:5, Informative)
by maxtorman (1457897) on Wednesday January 21, @05:54AM (#26543999)
Thank you! I wish this information would have been public and I didn't have
to create a new account to avoid being fired for releasing 'confidential
information' - but what can you do with jerkoff lawyers tearing at your
corporate heels already?

Now, to your questions!

1) It keeps changing because the scope of the issue keeps changing. I'm
pretty sure it's a range of drives within the familys noted in the KB
article - but also, there are some external drives affected because they
contain an internal drive with the problem, that aren't on the article yet.
Your best bet would be to compare your drive to the list of models, and then
wait a little while.. around friday, I *think* they should have most issues
sorted out and the information accurate. But I can't promise anything.

2) That could very well be it. I'm not privy to the nitty-gritty details, as
engineering clammed up pretty quickly - I'm just a geek enough to understand
what I hear in passing or the few technical details I came across when I go
looking for information. But the mysterious death log being a SMART
self-test log would absolutely make sense, and is consistent with what I'm
hearing.

3) Unofficially, I've seen more then just the 1.5Tb drives display symptoms
similiar to the stuttering issue, but none so blatent or as impacting as it
is in the 1.5Tb drives.

As far as the firmware fixing both the stuttering issue and the
unresponsive-drive issue, yes. The changes for the stuttering issue was made
in CC1H and SD1A firmwares. Any firmware equal or more recent then those
two, will have the fix for both issues.

4) I have no idea. SMART characteristics can vary from part number to part
number - or even sometimes drive-to-drive; so what is 'out of tolerances'
for one part number could be just fine for a different p/n (even though they
are the same model number).

End of mail

Ja nisam autor ovog gore posta sa news-a te sam iz razloga privatnosti sakrio mail adresu tog korisnika. Nadam se da je sada razjasnjen dio situacije, dogodilo se i IBM-u XD, svi infected diskovi su jedno vrijeme bili povuceni sa trzista tj. nije ih se vise isporucivalo... Ja sam za svoj kucni fileserver kupio 2 seagate od 500 gb, no radi se o 7200.12 seriji, jos ih nisam stavio u funkciju pa neznam kako rade , ali prosli su S/N check bez problema te su izasli nakon ovog kaosa tako da mislim da je taj dio rijesen... Ja im i dalje ostajem vjeran jer taman dok pridobim vjerodostojnost drugog branda moze mu se dogoditi sl. shit , mislim da si seagate nece dozvoliti da mu se ikad vise nesto ovakvo dogodi...