AMD Ryzen "ZEN2" (3000 CPU / 4000G APU series) Info thread - Stranica 93

rokonja · 13.06.2020., 08:00

Nije im dugo trebalo da se zaraze Intelovom skupoćom.

JC Denton · 13.06.2020., 10:51

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Autor rokonja

Nije im dugo trebalo da se zaraze Intelovom skupoćom.

Pa ne bi se čudio da prestanu rušit cijene. To se već polako moglo vidjet sa Navi GPU-om, dižu polako cijene kad znaju da imaju konkurentan proizvod. Doduše, sa GPU možda neće više dizat jer će bit jaka konkurencija, ali u CPU dijelu nemaju nekog razloga značajno rušit cijene. Budimo iskreni, da se Ryzen 5 i 7 serija prodaje za još 200-400kn manje bio bi dobar deal... sve novo da dođe i po malo višim cijenama nego Zen2 - prodavat će se dobro.

Malo je pušiona za naš potrošače... vrijeme je da počnemo navijat za Intel

Manuel Calavera · 13.06.2020., 14:58

Ne smiju se toliko opustiti. IMO po meni bi bilo bolje da nastave sa sadašnjom strategijom istog MSRP za nove cpu, a značajnim snižavanjem cijena starih. S tom šemom grabe marketshare masivno

Budimo realni intel će se kad tad vratiti, AMD će dominirati tržištem sa zen3 i vjerojatno zen4, kasnije je opet otvoren lov, pa ako je AMD zabušavao najebat će

The Exiled · 13.06.2020., 15:08

AMD je svoju lekciju naučil s Bulldozerom, a i Lisa Su ne bi samo tak dopustila da sve ovo propadne prek noći.

Intel s druge strane tek sad ima bitku uzbrdo, a i kad/ako se vrate, AMD ne bude nemoćan ko u Conroe i Sandy Bridge doba.

Manuel Calavera · 13.06.2020., 15:19

Dizajn od zen1 do zen3 je bio istovremeno gotov (naravno kasnije se ostvaruje tj. provodi u djelo). Zen4 i zen5 je post-Jim Keller era. Valjda ne mogu sa zen4 i zen5 zajebati već dobar proizvod, jer neće sigurno izbacivati vani lošiji od prošlog, a valjda će imati i malo headrooma naspram intela (IPC i core prednost), tako da ako se intel i vrati malo jače, neće biti pregaženi ili znatno pregaženi.

No postoji bojazan što će biti kasnije, ako nisu dovoljno jak proizvod napravili mogu biti pregaženi.

Hoću reći da smo mi daleko od toga da treba navijati za Intel, odnosno da se treba bojati za iste. Kad imaš novce i ljudstvo (man hour) - to je kao voda - nađe svoj put, probije kad tad.

The Exiled · 13.06.2020., 15:37

Ja navijam da se Intel riješi Raje, Ryana i sl., a AMD je sa Zenom ionak unaprijed računal na 10nm Ice Lake, tj. da se mogu nositi s tim modelima, pa vidimo kak je ispalo s Intelove strane.

Ovaj put su karte malo drukčije podijeljene, na AMD-u je samo da ide dalje ovakvim tempom, a Intel se pošto-poto mora trgnuti i skužiti da više nisu najbolji u svemu, jer osim AMD-a ima i drugih koji su dugo čekali na ovakvu priliku.

Amd_Shill · 13.06.2020., 21:50

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Autor Manuel Calavera

Dizajn od zen1 do zen3 je bio istovremeno gotov (naravno kasnije se ostvaruje tj. provodi u djelo). Zen4 i zen5 je post-Jim Keller era. Valjda ne mogu sa zen4 i zen5 zajebati već dobar proizvod, jer neće sigurno izbacivati vani lošiji od prošlog, a valjda će imati i malo headrooma naspram intela (IPC i core prednost), tako da ako se intel i vrati malo jače, neće biti pregaženi ili znatno pregaženi.

No postoji bojazan što će biti kasnije, ako nisu dovoljno jak proizvod napravili mogu biti pregaženi.

Hoću reći da smo mi daleko od toga da treba navijati za Intel, odnosno da se treba bojati za iste. Kad imaš novce i ljudstvo (man hour) - to je kao voda - nađe svoj put, probije kad tad.

Nije Keller jedini dao obol Ryzenu.

Tajl3r · 13.06.2020., 21:52

Istina ali sto su AMD /u radili dok nije presao kod njih igrali se u pijesku ko djeca.

Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk

Manuel Calavera · 13.06.2020., 22:51

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Autor Amd_Shill

Nije Keller jedini dao obol Ryzenu.

Nitko nije ni rekao da je jedini. No znam da je bila info kad je otišao da je dizajn (barem "ugrubo") napravljen sve do zen3.

The Exiled · 13.06.2020., 23:08

OK, ajde da napakon raščistimo misterij zvan Jim Keller. U nastavku je materijal slobodno dostupan svima na Internetima, pa sami zaključite za što točno je Jim Keller zaslužan, jer se uporno i konstantno povezuje sa svim AMD-ovim hitovima.

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Dirk Meyer - K7 chief architect

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The new processor was jointly developed by Meyer's team in Austin (Texas) and Fred Weber's team in Sunnyvale (California).

Jim Keller - K8 lead architect

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Jim was lead architect on the first K8 project (the first iteration of K8 was eventually canceled and Fred Weber became lead architect on the design that came to market).

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“He’s the Forrest Gump of our industry,” says Fred Weber, former chief technology officer of AMD. “He keeps being in the middle of the interesting stuff and making a difference.” It was a team-building exercise, but also an expression of frustration at Keller’s departure, says Fred Weber, AMD’s chief technology officer at the time. “I would never say he doesn’t finish things—he absolutely does—but he leaves earlier than most.”

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It was unusual for a designer to leave so early in a chip’s development, and some of Keller’s AMD team were disappointed with his decision.
Afterward, the crew returned to their office and decided to remove a wall separating engineers from others on the team—on the spot, that night, with sledgehammers.
The K8 eventually came out in 2003. The chip was officially named Opteron—but AMD marketed one version as Sledgehammer.

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From 2012 to 2015, he returned to AMD to work on the AMD K12 and Zen microarchitectures.

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Jim Keller will serve as a vice president and the company's Chief Architect for CPU Cores.

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Chip manufacturers’ continual advances were making chips faster and more powerful, but they were also creating new problems.
The fastest chips now often came very close to overheating, putting a ceiling on how much faster they could perform.
Keller had spotted a new technical advance that could help address the problem—chiplets.

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Jim’s goal was to build the team and lay the groundwork for the new microarchitecture, which for the long-term will revolve around AMD Processor Architect Michael (Mike) Clark. Former Intel engineer Sam Naffziger, who was already working with AMD when the Zen team was put together, worked in tandem with the Carrizo and Zen teams on building internal metrics to assist with power as well. Mark Papermaster, CTO, has stated that over 300 dedicated engineers and two million man-hours have been put into Zen since its inception.

Jim Keller - involved in designing Apple A4/A5 processors

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Keller remained restless for the next interesting problem. In 2004, he joined another Dobberpuhl startup called P.A. Semi that focused on chips for high-end PCs and servers. And in 2008 he jumped to Apple (just before Apple acquired P.A. Semi). The preponderance of evidence points to an Intrinsity designed ARM Cortex-A8 core. This had more to do with the existing relationship between Samsung and Intrinsity just look at the timing. The acquisition of Intrinsity does, however, draw a line in the sand that may well be ahead of any Intrinsity re-designed Cortex-A9 appearing, leaving only Apple with access to Intrinsity for the multi-core generation. What about PA Semi? The A4 certainly does not appear to have much influence from PA Semi, at least at the block level. Some designers were no doubt involved in the A4, but definitely not to the point of a wholesale CPU design. The team was likely involved in other blocks or just applying their expertise to help pull together a complex SoC design. Steve Jobs described the PA Semi acquisition as part of Apple's strategy of product differentiation.

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Keller joined a team tasked with designing Apple’s own line of chips. Starting with the iPhone 4, the phones used designs Keller had worked on. He had his greatest impact on Apple’s A6 and A7 chips, which powered the iPhone 5 and 5s. The designs weren’t just faster than those of competitors: Apple optimized the chips for smoother graphics, making iPhone rivals seem janky by comparison. The chips also accelerated the iPhone’s speech processing—just in time to power Apple’s new Siri digital assistant.

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The lead designer behind Apple’s custom A-series chips A7-A12X, Gerard Williams III, has left the company. Gerard Williams III was the senior director in platform architecture at Apple. He worked at the company for 9 years. Apart from the chip design, Williams also oversaw the layout of various other parts on the SoC. Before Apple, Williams worked at ARM for 12 years. He was the technical lead on Arm’s Cortex-A8 microarchitecture which made its way into the iPhone 3GS and numerous other Android devices. His name is listed in over 60 Apple patents as an inventor. Apple has been moving the development of key chips used inside its devices in-house. What first started as the A7 chip featuring a 64-bit microarchitecture with the iPhone 5s has now expanded to include a custom GPU, a Secure Enclave chip, W1/H1 wireless chips, and more. Apple is also expected to switch to its custom-designed PMIC (power management IC) in the future to further improve iPhone battery life.

Jim Keller - joined Tesla as Vice President of Autopilot Hardware Engineering

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At Tesla’s Autonomy Day event for investors on Monday, CEO Elon Musk made a characteristically big deal out of the company’s new microchips. Describing the new FSD computer (it stands for “full self-driving”) that will power Tesla’s vehicles, Musk said they contained what was “objectively” the “best chip in the world.” And that’s not best by a little, but “by a huge margin.” Pete Bannon, the company’s lead on the project and Tesla’s head of Autopilot hardware, opened the event with a detailed rundown of the FSD’s technical specs. Musk was sitting beside him as the hype man, ready to translate technical specs into sound bites and boasts. Bannon is a respected figure in the industry, with stints designing chips at Intel and Apple before he joined Tesla in 2016. He explained that the FSD computer will be the brain of Tesla’s cars, processing input from eight cameras, 12 ultrasonic sensors, a front-facing radar, and GPS and mapping data. This data will be used to steer the car on the road.

Mike Butler - Bulldozer chief architect

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The Bulldozer architecture is arguably AMD's first radically new architecture since the introduction of the K7 Athlons way back in 1999. Both K8, which added 64-bit and integrated the memory controller, and K10, which added single-chip quad core, more cache, and a host of changes to improve instructions per cycle (IPC), can trace their lineage back to the K7. Bulldozer is something new. For Bulldozer specifically, additional design influences came into play. In the words of Chief Architect Mike Butler, AMD's goal was to "hold the line" on IPC (presumably meaning to keep it at around the same level as in Phenom II) but to increase the clock speed, thereby achieving improved single-threaded performance, too. The processor also had to be power efficient. Taken together, these goals explain just about every aspect of Bulldozer's design.

Michael Clark - Zen lead architect

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Zen was picked by Michael Clark, AMD's senior fellow and lead architect.

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Zen 4 was first mentioned by Forrest Norrod during AMD's EPYC One Year Anniversary webinar held on November 6, 2018.

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Zen 5 was first mentioned by lead architect Michael Clark during a discussion on April 9th, 2018.

Manuel Calavera · 13.06.2020., 23:14

Sad dali je baš slučajnost da gdje god lik dođe raste trava:

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Jim Keller’s history in the industry has been well documented – his work has had a significant effect in a number of areas that have propelled the industry forward. This includes work on Apple’s A4 and A5 processors, AMD’s K8 and Zen high-level designs, as well as Tesla’s custom silicon for self driving, which Tesla’s own competitors have said put the company up to seven years ahead.

Boldano je zadnja epizoda prije intela, o kojoj se nije znalo bog zna što dok nisam ovo pročitao

Što god da radi (makar koordinirao) uvijek dobro ispadne sve s čim imalo ima veze, pa makar bio samo sretna amajlija u nekoj fotelji bolje ga je imati nego nemati

Čisto sumnjam da nije ostavio bar nekog traga u intelu, unatoč najkraćem angažmanu (2 god.) tj. da je otišao "u pola posla"

The Exiled · 13.06.2020., 23:26

Za Apple i Teslu također imaš lijepih materijala koji detaljno opisuju tko točno je sve to odradil, a nije Jim Keller.

Mada, sad više nema veze da li je voditelj projekta ili nekaj treće, Intelu je svakak ostao gorak okus nakon njegovog odlaska.

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Jim Keller took over the responsibilities of the Autopilot program after Chris Lattner left and Tesla went in another direction by hiring AI expert Andrej Karpathy to oversee computer vision and AI.

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Tesla founder Elon Musk wanted to build self-driving cars—a goal that required each car to carry substantial internal computing power. Musk had tried chips from Intel’s Mobileye and nVidia, but still wasn’t satisfied.

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Once he understood how Tesla’s software would operate, Keller found that he could leave out or minimize components that nVidia included in its chips that weren’t as relevant to Tesla’s software.

Kaj točno je izvel u Intelu, ostaje da vidimo u godinama koje slijede.

Tajl3r · 13.06.2020., 23:52

https://youtu.be/1CSeY10zbqo

Tocka

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The Exiled · 14.06.2020., 00:18

OK, ali u se Intelu ponovila ista priča ko i u AMD-u prije nekoliko godina.

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Jim Keller was brought in to work with the K12 team and it was Mark and Lisa that decided to move K12 teams to work on Zen.
Shelving K12 was the reason he didn't renew his contract, and didn't stay long enough to see if Zen would actually fix AMD.

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K12 was to be AMD's first custom microarchitecture based on the ARMv8-A (AArch64) instruction setwith a planned release in 2017.
As of 2018 the product still hasn't been released, with development of ARM architectures continuing but no products planned.

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Intel confirmed that they have hired Jim Keller as a Senior Vice President. There, Keller will be heading up the 800lb gorilla’s silicon engineering group, with an emphasis on SoC development and integration.

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Intel’s Alder Lake is going to be a ARM-like big.LITTLE design.

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Jim Keller Resigns from Intel, Effective Immediately.

Manuel Calavera · 14.06.2020., 15:18

Di još nije bio? Sad bi mogao malo u Nvidiju raditi na AI, preciznije samovožnju

Budući da nemaju x86 cpu segment, vjerojatno bi ih zanimale i njegove ARM ideje

13.06.2020., 08:00	#2761
rokonja Premium Moj komp Datum registracije: Nov 2009 Lokacija: tamo tamo daleko Postovi: 139	Nije im dugo trebalo da se zaraze Intelovom skupoćom.

13.06.2020., 14:58	#2763
Manuel Calavera Premium Moj komp Datum registracije: Jul 2012 Lokacija: vk+ Postovi: 14,575	Ne smiju se toliko opustiti. IMO po meni bi bilo bolje da nastave sa sadašnjom strategijom istog MSRP za nove cpu, a značajnim snižavanjem cijena starih. S tom šemom grabe marketshare masivno Budimo realni intel će se kad tad vratiti, AMD će dominirati tržištem sa zen3 i vjerojatno zen4, kasnije je opet otvoren lov, pa ako je AMD zabušavao najebat će

13.06.2020., 15:08	#2764
The Exiled McG Moj komp Datum registracije: Feb 2014 Lokacija: Varaždin Postovi: 6,772	AMD je svoju lekciju naučil s Bulldozerom, a i Lisa Su ne bi samo tak dopustila da sve ovo propadne prek noći. Intel s druge strane tek sad ima bitku uzbrdo, a i kad/ako se vrate, AMD ne bude nemoćan ko u Conroe i Sandy Bridge doba.

13.06.2020., 15:19	#2765
Manuel Calavera Premium Moj komp Datum registracije: Jul 2012 Lokacija: vk+ Postovi: 14,575	Dizajn od zen1 do zen3 je bio istovremeno gotov (naravno kasnije se ostvaruje tj. provodi u djelo). Zen4 i zen5 je post-Jim Keller era. Valjda ne mogu sa zen4 i zen5 zajebati već dobar proizvod, jer neće sigurno izbacivati vani lošiji od prošlog, a valjda će imati i malo headrooma naspram intela (IPC i core prednost), tako da ako se intel i vrati malo jače, neće biti pregaženi ili znatno pregaženi. No postoji bojazan što će biti kasnije, ako nisu dovoljno jak proizvod napravili mogu biti pregaženi. Hoću reći da smo mi daleko od toga da treba navijati za Intel, odnosno da se treba bojati za iste. Kad imaš novce i ljudstvo (man hour) - to je kao voda - nađe svoj put, probije kad tad.

13.06.2020., 15:37	#2766
The Exiled McG Moj komp Datum registracije: Feb 2014 Lokacija: Varaždin Postovi: 6,772	Ja navijam da se Intel riješi Raje, Ryana i sl., a AMD je sa Zenom ionak unaprijed računal na 10nm Ice Lake, tj. da se mogu nositi s tim modelima, pa vidimo kak je ispalo s Intelove strane. Ovaj put su karte malo drukčije podijeljene, na AMD-u je samo da ide dalje ovakvim tempom, a Intel se pošto-poto mora trgnuti i skužiti da više nisu najbolji u svemu, jer osim AMD-a ima i drugih koji su dugo čekali na ovakvu priliku.

13.06.2020., 21:52	#2768
Tajl3r Dobro je sve. Moj komp Datum registracije: Sep 2012 Lokacija: 00001 Postovi: 2,160	Istina ali sto su AMD /u radili dok nije presao kod njih igrali se u pijesku ko djeca. Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk

13.06.2020., 23:52	#2773
Tajl3r Dobro je sve. Moj komp Datum registracije: Sep 2012 Lokacija: 00001 Postovi: 2,160	https://youtu.be/1CSeY10zbqo Tocka Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk

14.06.2020., 15:18	#2775
Manuel Calavera Premium Moj komp Datum registracije: Jul 2012 Lokacija: vk+ Postovi: 14,575	Di još nije bio? Sad bi mogao malo u Nvidiju raditi na AI, preciznije samovožnju Budući da nemaju x86 cpu segment, vjerojatno bi ih zanimale i njegove ARM ideje