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Staro 12.09.2021., 21:25   #5041
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10% do 15% bolje performanse u odnosu na Zen 3 uz 50%+ veću potrošnju i zagrijavanje, uopće nije loše, tako da će i cijena biti opravdana za taj nivo performansi.
tako nekako da.i5 12600 k će bit 357 eura = 2677 kuna ako ne bude i skuplji,i5 11600k i ryzen 5600x koštaju 2200 sad možda još cjena padne,valjda izlazi zen 3+ koji će dat jedno kolko piše 6-7% u odnosu na zen3,tako da po meni neisplativo ai grafička diktira promejnu konfe,bolje mi uzet 3060 ti ako bude po dobroj cjeni pa makar s mojim i5 4670k nego kupiet alder lake sa mojoj gtx 2060 6gb.

i kolko terba fušerima u corsairu da odgovore na mail ako će napravit bracket za corsair h55 za 1700 socket,jel trebaju novi bracket za one koji imaju corasir h115 h 100??i ostale vodenjare.
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Staro 12.09.2021., 21:34   #5042
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AiO proizvođači bi zajedno s ovima koji nude klasična zračna hlađenja trebali imati ili barem po nekoj simboličnoj cijeni od par dolara/eura (po)nuditi LGA-1700 adaptere za svoje popularne modele. Neki su već najavili ili potvrdili.

Kaj se pak nadogranje tiče, sad kad su se cijene i ponuda koliko-toliko stabilizirale, možda i nije loše da razmisliš o prelasku na Zen 3 ili Intel ekvivalent, jer svaki bude popriličan skok u odnosu na trenutni Core i5-4670K.
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Staro 12.09.2021., 22:18   #5043
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tako nekako da.i5 12600 k će bit 357 eura = 2677 kuna ako ne bude i skuplji,i5 11600k i ryzen 5600x koštaju 2200 sad možda još cjena padne,valjda izlazi zen 3+ koji će dat jedno kolko piše 6-7% u odnosu na zen3,tako da po meni neisplativo ai grafička diktira promejnu konfe,bolje mi uzet 3060 ti ako bude po dobroj cjeni pa makar s mojim i5 4670k nego kupiet alder lake sa mojoj gtx 2060 6gb.

i kolko terba fušerima u corsairu da odgovore na mail ako će napravit bracket za corsair h55 za 1700 socket,jel trebaju novi bracket za one koji imaju corasir h115 h 100??i ostale vodenjare.
Core i5-12400 za valjda ispod 2000 kn će biti valjda dobar izbor u svakom pogledu...uloženo/dobiveno i lagano za ohladiti. Ploče će biti skupe i DDR5.
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Staro 12.09.2021., 23:12   #5044
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Core i5-12400 za valjda ispod 2000 kn će biti valjda dobar izbor u svakom pogledu...uloženo/dobiveno i lagano za ohladiti. Ploče će biti skupe i DDR5.
možda, samo će ovaj put biti razlika u broju jezgri, ako su leakovi točni
pa će tako ovi slabiji i5 imat klasičnih 6/12 jezgre, dok će na 12600 uz tih 6/12 dodat i 4 male jezgre, pa štogod i kome one značile
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Staro 13.09.2021., 21:34   #5045
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Alder Lake Tested With DDR5-6400 Memory, Has Unexpectedly High Latency

Link: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ge...-on-alder-lake
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Staro 14.09.2021., 18:44   #5046
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Intel is using heavy discounts on Xeon CPUs to stop AMD from eating its server lunch
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Intel is truly feeling the heat coming from AMD as of late. The latter company has seen incredible gains in x86 processor market share over the past few years, and recently reached as high as 22.5 percent -- the highest it's had since 2007. It did this by changing focus away from value-oriented desktop processors and more towards cranking out as many gaming and enthusiast-level CPUs as it could. Intel responded quickly by offering discounts on 11th and 10th gen Core processors, but AMD still dominates Amazon's best-selling charts to this day. Things are starting to look better for AMD on the notebook processor market, but supply constraints are keeping them from making faster gains. This is an area where Intel still feels comfortable.

On the other hand, server CPUs were a major contributor to AMD's market share gains last quarter. The company says its latest EPYC processors launched in March offer double the performance of their Intel counterparts, and this translated into AMD supplying almost two-thirds of the CPU cores in the world's top 500 supercomputers in June. While Intel holds almost 90 percent of the server market share, the company still has reasons to worry. After all, server processors are a sticky business that has both a high barrier of entry and high switching costs. According to DigiTimes, Intel is scrambling to prevent AMD from gaining more server CPU market share by offering discounts on its Xeon and Xeon Scalable processors.

Intel is doing this for two reasons. The first is that AMD depends on TSMC to manufacture its EPYC CPUs, whereas Intel relies on its own fabs to make Xeon CPUs. Some vendors have reported that AMD has solved its supply issues for the most part, but still has to deal with TSMC's increase in contract pricing moving forward. The second reason is that unlike AMD, Intel's business is more diversified. This allows the latter to take a financial hit in the short run, especially knowing that hyperscale clients will tend to stick with AMD if they decide to go that route, as the costs of switching back to Intel down the line would be too high.

Either way, AMD is eating Intel's lunch and the latter is obviously worried about it -- enough to push its Xeon processors at a discount while it prepares the release of its next-generation Sapphire Rapids CPUs. These will be based on Intel's Enhanced SuperFin process -- also known as Intel 7 after the recent rebrand -- and are expected to be faster that AMD's EPYC 3 CPUs. As for when they'll become available, Intel is planning to begin small production runs early next year and ramp up to volume manufacturing in the second quarter.
Izvor: TechSpot
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Staro 14.09.2021., 19:18   #5047
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Opa, toliko je gadno da spuštaju cijene u enterprise segmentu.
Neka neka, ja se samo nadam da će postati konkurentniji, mislim da bi za nas bilo najbolje međusobno šamaranje kao u doba Athlona(XP) i P4 gdje je svakih par mj drugi bio u maloj prednosti.
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Staro 15.09.2021., 12:25   #5048
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boldao si birane podatke u tekstu, a nećeš boldat onaj koji govori da intel i dalje drži 90% serverskog tržišta, što si uporno negirao u prijašnjim raspravama

..While Intel holds almost 90 percent of the server market share...
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Staro 15.09.2021., 13:44   #5049
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boldao si birane podatke u tekstu, a nećeš boldat onaj koji govori da intel i dalje drži 90% serverskog tržišta, što si uporno negirao u prijašnjim raspravama

..While Intel holds almost 90 percent of the server market share...
Dali je možda lagao ?

I da citiram, možda se neko prepozna:

"al ok, prihvaćam da ponekad kenjam previše
jbga, nisam picajzla bezveze "
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Staro 15.09.2021., 14:00   #5050
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Statistika je kurva. Obojica navlačite i razvlačite brojke kako vam paše i gledate samo onaj segment koji vam odgovara.

Ali ako je stvarno zadnji kvartal 90% prodaje Intel, može AMD rasti 100% u prodaji, ali je to onda s 5% na 10% što opet znači da je picajzla u pravu i Intel drži veliku većinu sve prodaje.

Je trend na strani AMDa, koji raste a Intel pada, ali ima još nekoliko godina 100% rasta da dođe do 50/50 udjela.
Nije uopće bilo sporno da je Intel i dalje vodeći u svemu, samo je (od moje strane) spomenuto da je većina novih mašina (1 - 2) bazirana na AMD rješenjima, mada na kraju Intel opet prevladava prema Mercury istraživanjima, jer eto:
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Mercury Research captures all x86 server-class processors in their server unit estimate, regardless of device (server, network or storage).
Tak jasno da AMD nema takav portfolio, možda budu kasnije kad im prođe Xilinx akvizicija. I sve to untarag već dvije stranice u kontekstu da AMD polako, ali sigurno uzima do prije koju godinu Intelu zagarantirani dio tržišta.
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Staro 15.09.2021., 14:25   #5051
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Dali je možda lagao ?

I da citiram, možda se neko prepozna:

"al ok, prihvaćam da ponekad kenjam previše
jbga, nisam picajzla bezveze "
Nisam rekao da laže, nego da mu zaključak kako amd 'dominira' u prodaji novih procesora pogrešan, jer sa 10% udjela nemereš dominirati
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Staro 15.09.2021., 14:44   #5052
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Jedino je "novinaru" fora u tome da ja nigdje nisam spomenul (1 - 2) dominaciju, već su to tvoje konkstrukcije, tako da imaš materijala za biti u pravu na Internetima.

I tak, čekamo Alder Lake, dok se ti loviš za nešto kaj nije ni rečeno. Kaj je bilo, na BUG forumu je spori dan, pa imaš viška vremena, dok se stavlja X na lokalni klub.
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Staro 15.09.2021., 15:22   #5053
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Drži 90% servera i povećao je gamerski udio u zadnje vrijeme


https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/processormfg/

Također imaju rekordne zarade i grade nove tvornice koje moraš preletati dronom zbog velike površine
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Staro 15.09.2021., 15:36   #5054
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Jedino je "novinaru" fora u tome da ja nigdje nisam spomenul dominaciju, već su to tvoje konkstrukcije, tako da imaš materijala za biti u pravu na Internetima.
nisi rekao dominacija, nego većina novih procesora je amd i arm
dakle nije govno, nego se pas posrao

a kako može biti većina novih amd procesora prodanih, kad mu je tržišni udio 10% u serverskim procesorima

dakle na 1 amdov epyc intel je u prvom kvartalu prodao 9 xeona, to si ti uporno nazivao 'većinom' ili amd dominacijom, isti drek
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Staro 15.09.2021., 15:41   #5055
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Staro 15.09.2021., 16:05   #5056
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nisi rekao dominacija, nego većina novih procesora je amd i arm
dakle nije govno, nego se pas posrao

a kako može biti većina novih amd procesora prodanih, kad mu je tržišni udio 10% u serverskim procesorima

dakle na 1 amdov epyc intel je u prvom kvartalu prodao 9 xeona, to si ti uporno nazivao 'većinom' ili amd dominacijom, isti drek
Pa kad su toliko Xeoni sporiji, pa moraju kompenzirati! :P
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Staro 15.09.2021., 16:27   #5057
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A vjerojatno i kupcima plaća struju koju Xeoni potroše...
Mislim da sam negdje pročital da bu Intel sad izumil novo sunce da bi se njegovi procesori mogli napajati...
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Staro 15.09.2021., 16:45   #5058
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Nekad su Dellu plaćali samo da ne kupe AMD, tak da ni ovo sa strujom ne bi bilo neobično.

Još sad kad izađe Alder Lake, pa pomete (godinu dana stari) Zen 3 s nekih 10% do 15% boljim single-core gaming performansama u pomno odabranim Digital Foundry naslovima.

Tak jasno da se svima komp boota direktno u Kol af Djuti: Suze za zagorske brege - Črne Strele 2.

Joj, svi sretni i zadovoljni, spremni za nove rekordne zarade. #intelnatronu
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Staro 15.09.2021., 16:58   #5059
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Jebiga dečki, dominacija na najjače, waferi putuju plafonskim liftovima i šinama
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Staro 15.09.2021., 17:09   #5060
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Toliko im cvate cveće u preduzeće da danas više, nego ikad ovise o vanjskim firmama poput TSMC-a, dok istovremeno pričaju bajke o tehnološkoj nadmoći i povratku na tron uz eto već trećeg generalnog direktora unatrag pet godina.



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Intel CEO says it will respond to AMD with better products and put pressure on nVidia graphics
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We just say about the AMD threat, you know we got to do better products, period! So we gonna build better products and they had a period we haven’t executed well. We’re gonna execute, execute, execute! So we were in a period where we were behind. Now with Ice Lake, Sapphire Rapids, Diamond Rapids, we are in a period where we are going to be very competitive and as we get out to 3 -4 years from now, we see that we will be in sustained leadership again. We have a number of things going on over here[…] We are rolling out the heterogenous architecture that is part of Alder Lake where we have big and little cores, you know AMD only has one. We’ll have a higher performance and a more energy-efficient version of the core, pretty compelling, we’ll lay out our major vector enhancement stuff, we have our GPU architecture where we are gonna start being in a position to really put pressure on nVidia for the first time ever.
Izvor: VideoCardz
I dok novi-stari CEO ima kojekakve čestitke, želje i pozdrave, realnost je malo drugačija. Alder Lakeova poveća potrošnja i zagrijavanje dovoljno govori o učinkovitosti same arhitekture, a heterogeni pristup, odnosno hibridni dizajn je tu samo da marketing može odraditi svoje i reći da sada napokon imaju i nude isto toliko jezgri koliko i konkurencija. AVX-512 je kompletno isključen za desktop, dok su manje Atom jezgre totalno ignorirane za serverske Sapphire Rapids primjerke, jer bez Windows 11 podrške i Intel Thread Director implementacije, taj dio priče ne drži vodu, a serverska infrastruktura se vrti na *nix okolinama koje su za prvu ruku lijepo stavljene sa strane.
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Cloudflare says Intel is not inside its next-gen servers – Ice Lake melted its energy budget
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Internet-grooming company Cloudflare has revealed that it was unable to put Intel inside its new home-brew servers, because they just used too much energy. "We evaluated Intel's latest generation of 'Ice Lake' Xeon processors," Howells wrote. "Although Intel's chips were able to compete with AMD in terms of raw performance, the power consumption was several hundred watts higher per server – that's enormous." Requests per Watt is one of our defining characteristics when testing new hardware and we use it to identify how much more efficient a new hardware generation is than the previous generation. So, based on the samples we received from our vendors and our subsequent testing, hardware from AMD and Ampere made the shortlist for our generation 11 server. On this occasion, we decided that Intel did not meet our requirements.
Izvor: The Register i Cloudfare

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ASML is the key to Intel’s resurrection just like ASML helped TSMC beat Intel
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If Intel has any hope of recapturing the lead in the Moore’s Law race from TSMC then it desperately needs ASML’s help. Right now TSMC is miles ahead of Intel in EUV tool count and experience which is the key to advanced technology nodes. If both TSMC and Intel buy tools and technology at an equal rate, TSMC will stay ahead. The only other way for Intel to catch TSMC is for TSMC to fall on its own sword, much as Intel did, but we don’t see that happening any time soon. Back when ASML was struggling with EUV, making slow progress on a questionable technology, they were looking for an early adopter to take the plunge and convince the industry that EUV was real. ASML got into a room with TSMC management and cut a deal and TSMC went from an EUV non-believer to a full on convert virtually over night. TSMC went from “never EUV” to its biggest customer and user (financed by Apple). The rest is history. Its likely that TSMC may have pulled ahead without EUV but EUV really allowed TSMC to accelerate away from Intel and Samsung and create a huge Moore’s Law lead that exists today.

Obviously there was some behind the scenes discussion between ASML & Intel as Intel came out with a full throated support of high-NA EUV technology. If ASML anoints Intel as the high-NA EUV champion in exchange for its commitment and Intel gets preferential access to tools over TSMC as its reward, that could be the difference to get Intel back in the Moore’s Law game ahead of TSMC. Intel of course has to do a lot of other things right, such as new transistor design and vertically stacked transistors but little of that will matter if they can’t get back in the Moore’s Law game with leading edge litho. Back in 2012 ASML was struggling with EUV and needed some financial help to complete the technology and show support of customers. It would seem that now the shoe is on the other foot. ASML is on fire and Intel is in need of help. ASML has a 50% higher market cap than Intel.

Intel has a lot to do, a lot to prove and a lot of money to spend to recapture the lead in semiconductors. In short, Intel needs help. Maybe ASML should invest in Intel much as Intel invested in ASML when the chips were down. If ASML were to invest a similar amount in Intel, it would be enough cash to pay for both planned foundries in Arizona and then some. With enough left over for Intel to buy some expensive high-NA tools. This would certainly be better than a US government bailout of Intel’s self inflicted problems which would benefit investors rather than tapping taxpayers. Intel would certainly rather take the “free money” from the government. Its a nice dream but we doubt that Samsung & TSMC would be happy with ASML investing in Intel.

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In its early years, Intel declined a bid to invest in TSMC, probably not thinking contract chip making would have a future, Chang disclosed. Founded in Taiwan in 1987 by Morris Chang, TSMC was the world's first dedicated semiconductor foundry and has long been the leading company in its field. Morris Chang, the founder and chairman of TSMC, successfully convinced Philips to invest in TSMC and use its factories to manufacture Philips' chips, making the European giant an original investor and early customer. Philips' name was just as important as its money to TSMC. Adding Philips to the list of TSMC investors helped convince government officials in Taiwan, other investors and other potential customers to work with and invest in TSMC early on. In 1984, Philips split off its activities on the field of photolithographic integrated circuit production equipment, the so-called wafer steppers, into a joint venture with ASM International, located in Veldhoven under the name ASML. Over the years, this new company has evolved into the world's leading manufacturer of chip production machines at the expense of competitors like Nikon and Canon.
Izvor: SemiWiki


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Staro 15.09.2021., 19:07   #5061
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Nisam rekao da laže, nego da mu zaključak kako amd 'dominira' u prodaji novih procesora pogrešan, jer sa 10% udjela nemereš dominirati
Intel ima 90% udjela, no AMD trenutno dominira u prodaji, velika razlika.
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Staro 15.09.2021., 19:09   #5062
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Intel je čista prevara od glave do pete, pokazat će bilo šta samo da izgleda da im je lijepo, a realnost je takva da im gori pod petama i na sve načine traže rješenje kako se izvući iz gabule, njihovi potezi sve govore.
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Staro 15.09.2021., 19:53   #5063
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Serversko tržište je tromo i sporo. Ima intel udio, no pitanje je kolika je prodaja zadnje 3-4 godine, jer 90% sigurno nije ako si je AMD povećao udio negdje od preko 1000% do 1500% na tako tromom tržištu

Tromo, jer npr. znam da šeici u Dubaju u hotelima furaju core2duo generaciju i boli ih kifla, nebi mijenjali dok funkicionira. Tj. to je bilo prije 3 godine, možda su dosad uzeli nešto
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Staro 15.09.2021., 20:09   #5064
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Intel ima 90% udjela, no AMD trenutno dominira u prodaji, velika razlika.
ajde sad mi objasni tu veliku razliku, naime riječ je bila o kvartalnom izvješću tržišnih udjela

da li uopće znaš što znači pojam tržišni udio?
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Staro 15.09.2021., 20:10   #5065
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Serversko tržište je tromo i sporo. Ima intel udio, no pitanje je kolika je prodaja zadnje 3-4 godine, jer 90% sigurno nije ako si je AMD povećao udio negdje od preko 1000% do 1500% na tako tromom tržištu
Zna Intel jako dobro što ih je snašlo i tko je kriv za trenutnu situaciju i da malo manje laju kroz marketing, možda bi im sve kaj najavaljuju djelovalo vjerodostojnije.
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Ultimately, depending on if you view the glass as half-full or half-empty, Intel is either boosting Xeon Scalable performance by upwards of 33%, or cutting prices by even more (50-60%+ in some cases).

Even in the 28-32 core range, the EPYC 75F3 is an ultra-fast 32-core offering that makes Cascade Lake processors simply look like slow low-power CPUs.
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We see that the AMD EPYC 7543P tends to be ahead of the Intel Xeon Gold 6314U by 25-33%. Overall, Intel can claim a lower price by almost 5%. AMD can, however, claim that it has 20-33% better performance as well as additional PCIe Gen4 connectivity. Intel has its newer instructions and Optane PMem 200 support. Still, for the majority of buyers, it seems fairly clear that at list price, AMD has a better value proposition here.
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Suffice to say, EPYC is growing fast and given what we saw, this growth seems to be at the expense of Intel Xeon.

Intel either is seeing the Osborne Effect from delaying its Ice Lake processors and demand shifting before a supply of the new parts arrives.

So while AMD is positioning 2021 as a year of growth with significant margin upside, Intel is positioning a tough year where it will discount to drive volume.
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Set to launch in 2022, Sapphire Rapids will be Intel’s first modern CPU product to take advantage of a multi-die architecture that aims to minimize latency and maximize bandwidth due to its Embedded Multi-Die Interconnect Bridge technology. It’s worth comparing this to AMD’s first-generation EPYC, which also used a 2x2 chiplet method, albeit with connectivity through the package. AMD escaped the need for having multiple silicon designs by having it rotationally symmetric.
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Staro 15.09.2021., 20:49   #5066
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Nisam rekao da laže, nego da mu zaključak kako amd 'dominira' u prodaji novih procesora pogrešan, jer sa 10% udjela nemereš dominirati
Ako čemo realno, "dominacija" i zaključci su tvoja konstrukcija, a zamjerka je bila da je čovjek boldao a tebe nije pitao za dozvolu
Ako ništa drugo daj budi bar malo više dosljedan i puno manje naporan.
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Staro 15.09.2021., 20:55   #5067
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ajde sad mi objasni tu veliku razliku, naime riječ je bila o kvartalnom izvješću tržišnih udjela

da li uopće znaš što znači pojam tržišni udio?
Ne kužim šta ti nije jasno? Intel je do 2017 god. imao 99+% udjela, a sad je ispod 90%

Dakle u taj udio ulaze i core2duo koji su još aktivni...
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Staro 15.09.2021., 21:02   #5068
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Ne kužim šta ti nije jasno? Intel je do 2017 god. imao 99+% udjela, a sad je ispod 90%

Dakle u taj udio ulaze i core2duo koji su još aktivni...
Koliko kužim kvartalno izvješće novo prodanih procesora je 9:1
Ima picajzla te linkove pa nek posta ponovno, meni se neda tražiti niti mi je to napeto
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Staro 15.09.2021., 21:02   #5069
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Ne kužim šta ti nije jasno? Intel je do 2017 god. imao 99+% udjela, a sad je ispod 90%

Dakle u taj udio ulaze i core2duo koji su još aktivni...

Market share is the percent of total sales in an industry generated by a particular company. Market share is calculated by taking the company's sales over the period and dividing it by the total sales of the industry over the same period

ako smo pričali o podacima tržišta za prvi kvartal 2021. godine, u kojem je amd imao cca 10% tržišnog udjela, dakle ako je isporuka serverskih procesora u prva tri mjeseca ove godine iznosila 100.000 komada (bubam) od strane intela i amd-a, onda je amd prodao 10.000 epyca, a intel 90.000 xeona

u te podatke ne ulaze prodaje ranijih godina i serveri koje ekipa ima već godinama, podaci se odnose na tržišni udio 1q 2021.

kako onda mogu u te podatke ulaziti core2duo procesori koji se ne prodaju godinama, a i nisu dio serverskog tržišta?
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Staro 15.09.2021., 21:41   #5070
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razumljivo je da se gube živčeki, najavljivalo se svašta, tvrdilo da amd 'sad' prodaje najviše serverskih procesora, da je intel u panici itd. itd. itd.

kad ono - prema novim podacima za q2 2021. amd narastao sa 8,9 na 9,5 posto udjela na tržištu serverskih procesora, stvarno značajan rast koji odražava tvrdnje 'prodaje najviše' (da ne spominjem dominaciju, nekima to očito triggera ptsp)
ukupno gledajući, amd udio na tržištu x86 procesora čak se i smanjio

https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-claims-i...t-in-14-years/

na stranu zajebancija, amd je doista zagrizao pošteno u tržište, jedino što ga sprječava da to bude i značajnije je manjak proizvodnih kapaciteta
nadajmo se da će se taj trend nastaviti jer usprkos trenutnoj tehnološkoj premoći amd je još daleko od uspostavljanja nekakvog 'duopola' na tržištu, a tek kad ove brojke prodaje dođu puno bliže intelovih mi možemo očekivati pravi rat cijenama, do tada će nas jebavat onaj koji preuzme gejmersku krunu i to masno naplati svaki put
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