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Staro 06.01.2007., 22:20   #61
LAcy
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Napravio sam od vijaka privremene i stvarno se osjeti razlika (pogotovo u basu - puno je 'čišći' ) pa sam nabacio shemu na papir i u ponedjeljak će bit gotovi kod tokara

Daj još koji tip za dobar zvuk
Naravno! Jer zvučnička kutija nema dodir sa podom i ne prenosi na njega vibracije koje kvare zvuk. A i susjedi ispod tebe (ako si u stanu) su također sretniji. Odmicanje od zida i kuteva prostorije također popravlja zvuk u basu. Zakretanje kutija prema slušatelju popravlja u srednjim i visokim, smanjenje refleksija u prostoriji također ali to je već teže ostvariti.
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Staro 07.01.2007., 12:44   #62
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Napravio sam od vijaka privremene i stvarno se osjeti razlika (pogotovo u basu - puno je 'čišći' ) pa sam nabacio shemu na papir i u ponedjeljak će bit gotovi kod tokara

Daj još koji tip za dobar zvuk
malo ot:u zagrebu ima sajam audiofilije i jednom slučajno naišao ja tamo jer je frend vozio neke slovence.i uletimo mi unutra i tip kleči na podu i sa metrom mjeri sobu,unosi mjere u lap i računa di če bit najbolje sve postavit i crta kredicom položaje po podu! meni ispala ladica jer mi nije jasno šta sad ovaj radi a kad dolazi drugi i iz violinske torbe vadi pozlaćene kablove i kaže slijedeče:"nečemo ove koristit jer još nisu razrađeni nego čemo uzet ove druge razrađene!" WTF?!?!?razrađeni kablovi?tu mi prekipilo pa sam otišao.crn znam da nisam pomogao ali ako dopelaš doma nekog hifi frika onda češ prisustvovat nečem ovakvom.reko da se ne iznenadiš : hello2 :

btw ako nije tajna u kojem webshopu si nabavio kučište?jer i ja razmišljam o nabavci istog jer u zadnje vrijeme na tv-u nema fakat ništa pa reko da i ja sklopim kakav htpc
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Staro 07.01.2007., 18:38   #63
crn
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malo ot:u zagrebu ima sajam audiofilije i jednom slučajno naišao ja tamo jer je frend vozio neke slovence.i uletimo mi unutra i tip kleči na podu i sa metrom mjeri sobu,unosi mjere u lap i računa di če bit najbolje sve postavit i crta kredicom položaje po podu! meni ispala ladica jer mi nije jasno šta sad ovaj radi a kad dolazi drugi i iz violinske torbe vadi pozlaćene kablove i kaže slijedeče:"nečemo ove koristit jer još nisu razrađeni nego čemo uzet ove druge razrađene!" WTF?!?!?razrađeni kablovi?tu mi prekipilo pa sam otišao.crn znam da nisam pomogao ali ako dopelaš doma nekog hifi frika onda češ prisustvovat nečem ovakvom.reko da se ne iznenadiš : hello2 :
Ma znam, gledao sam malo po Audofil.net forumu ali ne namjeravam iči toliko u 'dubinu' (još )

Citiraj:
btw ako nije tajna u kojem webshopu si nabavio kučište?jer i ja razmišljam o nabavci istog jer u zadnje vrijeme na tv-u nema fakat ništa pa reko da i ja sklopim kakav htpc
Zašto bi bila tajna... kučište je nabavljeno u Vesalia Computer. Izbor kućišta je prebolestan : goood : Imaju čak i cijene u kunama a pri izračunu cijene još i odbiju njihov PDV (~18 %). Isporuka je uredna... što se tiče njih sve preporuke. Jedino vodi računa da možeš imati dodatnih troškova pri uvozu jer iako na PC opremu nema carine naši će ti vjerojatno naplatiti PDV ...
__________________


The Geek Wants OUT
by Ernest Cline

At first glance
I probably appear to be a somewhat ordinary,
somewhat average looking fellow.
Calm, harmless, at ease.

But this is by design.
You see, it is through decades of research and rigorous training that I have crafted this façade of normalcy.

And now, through intense concentration,
I am able to function in a social setting.
I can speak at length with educated people about
pertinent matters of public importance,
such as literature,
or the current political climate in Europe.

I am capable of conversing with you
without ever revealing that just underneath the surface
of this manufactured veneer
there hides an altogether different person.
A monster, some might say.
My alter-ego.
He is the opposite of the image I project.
He is the antithesis of Cool.
He is the LAST person you want to get trapped in a conversation with.

He is The Geek.
The obsessive science fiction movie watching,
comic book collecting,
Monty Python dialogue memorizing,
Dungeons and Dragons playing GEEK
that I struggle daily to keep hidden from the world.

But The Geek Wants Out.

He want to talk to you.
He wants to give you his doctoral dissertation on why
The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension
is the greatest fucking film of all time!

He wants to bitch slap you because
you’ve never seen Big Trouble in Little China.
What? Have you been living in a fucking cave?!

He wants to kick your ass in Star Wars Trivial Pursuit.
And he will.
Because he’s a fucking Geek.

And he wants his toys.
He wants the complete set
in mint condition,
still in the box.
He wants every item on the planet that is even remotely related to Ultraman.
Because Ultraman is Airwolf!

He could give a squirt of piss
about sports or politics or rhetoric.
Such things are of no consequence to him.
What matters is the release date of the next Lord of the Rings movie!

You see, The Geek can’t wait.
The Geek has no patience.
He wants what he wants when he wants it.
And all he wants is stupid shit!

He wants his own Tardis.
He wants his own light saber.
He wants to buy a DeLorean and he wants to drive it 88 miles per hour.

He wants movies.
He wants to see the Director’s Cut.
He wants the impossible to find Japanese bootleg with
6 minutes of never-before-seen footage.

He wants to watch Blade Runner. Again.
He wants to watch Brazil. Again.
He wants to watch A Clockwork Orange.
Again and Again!

But I deprive him of these things, as best I can,
until I can no longer ignore his voice
screaming in my head.

I am Jekyl. He is Hyde.
I am Bruce Banner. He is the Hulk.
Especially the Hulk from issues #272 to #378.

But no longer!
I am putting a stop to all this nerdy shit right now!
I’m an adult, for Christ’s sake!
And this body isn’t big enough for the both of us.
One of us has to go, and it’s gonna be him.
I banishing the Geek forever to the Phantom Zone,
just like in Superman II !
Because, in the end –
there can be only one.
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Staro 08.01.2007., 22:41   #64
syss
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crni ovo kaj ti je lacy reko stoji isto... jedino ti imaš prednji br port, tako da su tvoji zvučnici u određenoj mjeri manje kritičniji na udaljenost od stražnjeg zida u odnosu na neke sa stražnjim br portom (kao npr moje doma s kojima ću izludit).

ako malo izbaciš spikere prema naprijed i okreneš ih prema sebi tako da maltene gledaš u prednje ploče i ne vidiš bočne stranice, trebo bi dobiti nešto bolji stage u dubinu i/ili širinu.

promijeni kabel za frontove (tek toliko za probu) sa 2 x 1/1.5mm krutog bakrenog kabela za el. instalacije... garantirana promjena.

javi dojmove i gud lak
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Staro 09.01.2007., 02:14   #65
crn
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Moji zvučnici isto imaju zadnje br otvore pa sam ih odmakao jedno 60cm od zida i sad je bas taman kako treba (odnosno kako meni odgovara ).
Svi zvučnici su spojeni sa Bandrige 2x1.5mm2 (transparent) kabelom tako da sam miran što se toga tiče ali sad me zezaju zvučne kartice.

Trenutno mi je integrirana spojena na reciver digitalno (coax) a Audigy analogno s tim da je Audigy defaultna kartica i svi sistemski zvukovi i igre (EAX) idu preko nje na receiver i dalje na zvučnike a u svim playerima (foobar, MPC, VLC...) je stavljen SPDIF prolaz tako da mi receiver automatski prepoznaje vrstu signala (DD, DTS, PCM...) i dekodira ga.
ALI... ni integrirana realtekova ALC850 ni Audigy2 ZS nemaju 'bit perfect' izlaz.
I jedna i druga hardwerski resampliraju 44100Hz signal na 48000Hz što i nije toliki problem za 'obične' audio CDe i mp3ce jer se razlika ne primječuje toliko ali imam dosta DTS/SACAD audio ripova (16bit/44100Hz/1411Kbps) i kad ih pokušavam svirati preko SPDIF izlaza receiver ih ne prepoznaje i dobijam samo šum. DTS signal u filmovima je kodiran u 48000 Hz tako da se prenosi neizmjenjen do receivera koji ga uredno prepoznaje ali ovaj audio DTS je 44100 Hz pa ga kartica resampliranjem 'uništi'.
Jedini način da ih čujem kako treba je da ih preimenujem iz *.wav u *.dts i sviram preko foobarovog dts plugina (koristeći kernel streaming) kao PCM/48000Hz a to me nervira jer želim da mi DTS signal ide direktno na reciver i da receiver dekodira DTS signal...

Izgleda da ću po svoj prilici morati nabaviti neku bit perfect karticu za audio/video a ostaviti audigy samo za igre i windowse, samo ne znam koju... Znam da sve starije Creative kartice hardwerski resampliraju kao i večina Realtekovih integriranih rješenja (navodno nova ALC88x serija ima bit perfect izlaz ali ne namjeravam sad mijenjati matičnu radi toga) a za X-Fi nisam siguran jer iako na papiru imaju opciju podešavanja 44.1 preko S/PDIFa (tkz. 'Bit-Matched Playback') ali i to opet samo u nekakvom 'Audio Creation Modu' tako da ne znam kako to u stvari funkcionira. Trenutno mi još najbolje izgleda ova M-Audio Revolution 5.1 (7.1)...
__________________


The Geek Wants OUT
by Ernest Cline

At first glance
I probably appear to be a somewhat ordinary,
somewhat average looking fellow.
Calm, harmless, at ease.

But this is by design.
You see, it is through decades of research and rigorous training that I have crafted this façade of normalcy.

And now, through intense concentration,
I am able to function in a social setting.
I can speak at length with educated people about
pertinent matters of public importance,
such as literature,
or the current political climate in Europe.

I am capable of conversing with you
without ever revealing that just underneath the surface
of this manufactured veneer
there hides an altogether different person.
A monster, some might say.
My alter-ego.
He is the opposite of the image I project.
He is the antithesis of Cool.
He is the LAST person you want to get trapped in a conversation with.

He is The Geek.
The obsessive science fiction movie watching,
comic book collecting,
Monty Python dialogue memorizing,
Dungeons and Dragons playing GEEK
that I struggle daily to keep hidden from the world.

But The Geek Wants Out.

He want to talk to you.
He wants to give you his doctoral dissertation on why
The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension
is the greatest fucking film of all time!

He wants to bitch slap you because
you’ve never seen Big Trouble in Little China.
What? Have you been living in a fucking cave?!

He wants to kick your ass in Star Wars Trivial Pursuit.
And he will.
Because he’s a fucking Geek.

And he wants his toys.
He wants the complete set
in mint condition,
still in the box.
He wants every item on the planet that is even remotely related to Ultraman.
Because Ultraman is Airwolf!

He could give a squirt of piss
about sports or politics or rhetoric.
Such things are of no consequence to him.
What matters is the release date of the next Lord of the Rings movie!

You see, The Geek can’t wait.
The Geek has no patience.
He wants what he wants when he wants it.
And all he wants is stupid shit!

He wants his own Tardis.
He wants his own light saber.
He wants to buy a DeLorean and he wants to drive it 88 miles per hour.

He wants movies.
He wants to see the Director’s Cut.
He wants the impossible to find Japanese bootleg with
6 minutes of never-before-seen footage.

He wants to watch Blade Runner. Again.
He wants to watch Brazil. Again.
He wants to watch A Clockwork Orange.
Again and Again!

But I deprive him of these things, as best I can,
until I can no longer ignore his voice
screaming in my head.

I am Jekyl. He is Hyde.
I am Bruce Banner. He is the Hulk.
Especially the Hulk from issues #272 to #378.

But no longer!
I am putting a stop to all this nerdy shit right now!
I’m an adult, for Christ’s sake!
And this body isn’t big enough for the both of us.
One of us has to go, and it’s gonna be him.
I banishing the Geek forever to the Phantom Zone,
just like in Superman II !
Because, in the end –
there can be only one.
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Staro 09.01.2007., 08:48   #66
LAcy
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.

Trenutno mi je integrirana spojena na reciver digitalno (coax) a Audigy analogno s tim da je Audigy defaultna kartica i svi sistemski zvukovi i igre (EAX) idu preko nje na receiver i dalje na zvučnike a u svim playerima (foobar, MPC, VLC...) je stavljen SPDIF prolaz tako da mi receiver automatski prepoznaje vrstu signala (DD, DTS, PCM...) i dekodira ga.
Sorry na OT, prije par mjeseci sam pitao ali nitko nije odgovorio.
Odnosno ja bih želio da mi glazba (foobar) ide na SPDIF a svi ostali zvukovi (win, igre...) na analogni izlaz. Digitalno sam spojio receiver i komp, a imam i 5.1 sistem za igre.
__________________




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Core i7-6700K LGA1151 Skylake
Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
Patriot Viper 4 Series DDR4 64GB (4 x 16GB) 3200MHz
RTX 2080 TI 11GB GDDR6
Samsung 850 EVO M.2 1TB SSD
Samsung 32" (2560x1440) CHG70 Gaming Monitor with Quantum Dot
MacBook M1 Pro
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Staro 09.01.2007., 10:04   #67
mat
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crn moga bi ako imas vremena napisat kratki tut. o zvuku, digitalnim, analognim izlazima i svemu tome. mislim da bi mnogima lijepo doslo
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Staro 09.01.2007., 10:12   #68
crn
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Sorry na OT, prije par mjeseci sam pitao ali nitko nije odgovorio.
Odnosno ja bih želio da mi glazba (foobar) ide na SPDIF a svi ostali zvukovi (win, igre...) na analogni izlaz. Digitalno sam spojio receiver i komp, a imam i 5.1 sistem za igre.
Koliko ja znam ni jedna kartica ne može slati istovremeno signal kroz analogne i digitalne izlaze i zato ti u pravilu trebaju dvije kartice.

E sad pošto ni jedan receiver ne zna dekodirati EAX koji ti treba za igre jednu karticu (za EAX je tu najbolji Creative koji ga je i izmislio) spojiš analogno na receiver sa tri 3.5mm > RCA kabela i nju postaviš kao defaultnu karticu u control panelu.
...

...

Drugu karticu (najbolje integriranu jer kvaliteta kartice ne igra nikakvu ulogu pošto samo proslijeđuje signal bez ikakvog procesiranja) spojiš digitalno sa koaksijalnim ili optičkim(toslink) kabelom i nju koristiš za filmove i muziku.
...

...

U driverima odrediš koja kartica će dekodirati signal a koja če ga samo slati na S/PDIF.
...

...

Ovisno koje playere koristiš u njima podesiš da koriste tu drugu karticu i još u DS filterima (ffdshow, ac3...) postaviš da ne dekodiraju signal nego da ga proslijeđuju na S/PDIF. U foobaru npr koristiš KS (kernel streaming) plugin koji šalje signal direktno na receiver a za filmove podesiš ffdshow...
...

...

S ovim postavkama ja sam SKORO pa potpuno pokriven. Igre i sistemske zvukove dekodira audigy2 i šalje signal analogno na receiver koji ga samo raspoređuje na zvučnike a muzika i filmovi (DTS i AC3(Dolby Digitali) idu direktno na receiver koji prepoznaje signal i dekodira ga.

(OSIM audio DTS signala koji je kodiran u 44100 Hz pa ga večina kartica koje bespotrebno rade hardwerski resampling sa 44100 > 48000 uspješno 'unište' tako da se iz zvučnika čuje samo šum )

Nadam se da ti je ovo malo pomoglo
__________________


The Geek Wants OUT
by Ernest Cline

At first glance
I probably appear to be a somewhat ordinary,
somewhat average looking fellow.
Calm, harmless, at ease.

But this is by design.
You see, it is through decades of research and rigorous training that I have crafted this façade of normalcy.

And now, through intense concentration,
I am able to function in a social setting.
I can speak at length with educated people about
pertinent matters of public importance,
such as literature,
or the current political climate in Europe.

I am capable of conversing with you
without ever revealing that just underneath the surface
of this manufactured veneer
there hides an altogether different person.
A monster, some might say.
My alter-ego.
He is the opposite of the image I project.
He is the antithesis of Cool.
He is the LAST person you want to get trapped in a conversation with.

He is The Geek.
The obsessive science fiction movie watching,
comic book collecting,
Monty Python dialogue memorizing,
Dungeons and Dragons playing GEEK
that I struggle daily to keep hidden from the world.

But The Geek Wants Out.

He want to talk to you.
He wants to give you his doctoral dissertation on why
The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension
is the greatest fucking film of all time!

He wants to bitch slap you because
you’ve never seen Big Trouble in Little China.
What? Have you been living in a fucking cave?!

He wants to kick your ass in Star Wars Trivial Pursuit.
And he will.
Because he’s a fucking Geek.

And he wants his toys.
He wants the complete set
in mint condition,
still in the box.
He wants every item on the planet that is even remotely related to Ultraman.
Because Ultraman is Airwolf!

He could give a squirt of piss
about sports or politics or rhetoric.
Such things are of no consequence to him.
What matters is the release date of the next Lord of the Rings movie!

You see, The Geek can’t wait.
The Geek has no patience.
He wants what he wants when he wants it.
And all he wants is stupid shit!

He wants his own Tardis.
He wants his own light saber.
He wants to buy a DeLorean and he wants to drive it 88 miles per hour.

He wants movies.
He wants to see the Director’s Cut.
He wants the impossible to find Japanese bootleg with
6 minutes of never-before-seen footage.

He wants to watch Blade Runner. Again.
He wants to watch Brazil. Again.
He wants to watch A Clockwork Orange.
Again and Again!

But I deprive him of these things, as best I can,
until I can no longer ignore his voice
screaming in my head.

I am Jekyl. He is Hyde.
I am Bruce Banner. He is the Hulk.
Especially the Hulk from issues #272 to #378.

But no longer!
I am putting a stop to all this nerdy shit right now!
I’m an adult, for Christ’s sake!
And this body isn’t big enough for the both of us.
One of us has to go, and it’s gonna be him.
I banishing the Geek forever to the Phantom Zone,
just like in Superman II !
Because, in the end –
there can be only one.
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Staro 09.01.2007., 12:56   #69
LAcy
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Hmmm nisšta bez dodatne zvučne kartice. A imam samo dva PCI utora i oba su naravno zauzeta.
__________________




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Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
Patriot Viper 4 Series DDR4 64GB (4 x 16GB) 3200MHz
RTX 2080 TI 11GB GDDR6
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Staro 09.01.2007., 21:00   #70
syss
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eto crni samo polako i eto tebe sa savršenim zvukom (za tvoju sobu naravno)

su ti bandridge kabeli licna ili full? ak su licna sam probaj sa full... tek tolko da ne umre istraživački duh i javi da li ima kakvih promjena (pusti si za test neku stereo muziku koju baš onak poznaš u detalje).
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Staro 09.01.2007., 21:34   #71
crn
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eto crni samo polako i eto tebe sa savršenim zvukom (za tvoju sobu naravno)

su ti bandridge kabeli licna ili full? ak su licna sam probaj sa full... tek tolko da ne umre istraživački duh i javi da li ima kakvih promjena (pusti si za test neku stereo muziku koju baš onak poznaš u detalje).
Ako sam te dobro skužio misliš da li je puni ili pleteni kabel ? : stoopid
Ovaj moj je pleteni, evo OVAKO nekako to izgleda...
__________________


The Geek Wants OUT
by Ernest Cline

At first glance
I probably appear to be a somewhat ordinary,
somewhat average looking fellow.
Calm, harmless, at ease.

But this is by design.
You see, it is through decades of research and rigorous training that I have crafted this façade of normalcy.

And now, through intense concentration,
I am able to function in a social setting.
I can speak at length with educated people about
pertinent matters of public importance,
such as literature,
or the current political climate in Europe.

I am capable of conversing with you
without ever revealing that just underneath the surface
of this manufactured veneer
there hides an altogether different person.
A monster, some might say.
My alter-ego.
He is the opposite of the image I project.
He is the antithesis of Cool.
He is the LAST person you want to get trapped in a conversation with.

He is The Geek.
The obsessive science fiction movie watching,
comic book collecting,
Monty Python dialogue memorizing,
Dungeons and Dragons playing GEEK
that I struggle daily to keep hidden from the world.

But The Geek Wants Out.

He want to talk to you.
He wants to give you his doctoral dissertation on why
The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension
is the greatest fucking film of all time!

He wants to bitch slap you because
you’ve never seen Big Trouble in Little China.
What? Have you been living in a fucking cave?!

He wants to kick your ass in Star Wars Trivial Pursuit.
And he will.
Because he’s a fucking Geek.

And he wants his toys.
He wants the complete set
in mint condition,
still in the box.
He wants every item on the planet that is even remotely related to Ultraman.
Because Ultraman is Airwolf!

He could give a squirt of piss
about sports or politics or rhetoric.
Such things are of no consequence to him.
What matters is the release date of the next Lord of the Rings movie!

You see, The Geek can’t wait.
The Geek has no patience.
He wants what he wants when he wants it.
And all he wants is stupid shit!

He wants his own Tardis.
He wants his own light saber.
He wants to buy a DeLorean and he wants to drive it 88 miles per hour.

He wants movies.
He wants to see the Director’s Cut.
He wants the impossible to find Japanese bootleg with
6 minutes of never-before-seen footage.

He wants to watch Blade Runner. Again.
He wants to watch Brazil. Again.
He wants to watch A Clockwork Orange.
Again and Again!

But I deprive him of these things, as best I can,
until I can no longer ignore his voice
screaming in my head.

I am Jekyl. He is Hyde.
I am Bruce Banner. He is the Hulk.
Especially the Hulk from issues #272 to #378.

But no longer!
I am putting a stop to all this nerdy shit right now!
I’m an adult, for Christ’s sake!
And this body isn’t big enough for the both of us.
One of us has to go, and it’s gonna be him.
I banishing the Geek forever to the Phantom Zone,
just like in Superman II !
Because, in the end –
there can be only one.
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Staro 09.01.2007., 21:44   #72
LAcy
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eto crni samo polako i eto tebe sa savršenim zvukom (za tvoju sobu naravno)

su ti bandridge kabeli licna ili full? ak su licna sam probaj sa full... tek tolko da ne umre istraživački duh i javi da li ima kakvih promjena (pusti si za test neku stereo muziku koju baš onak poznaš u detalje).
Sad odosmo u totalni OT, ali meni baš nije fizikalno jasno zašto neki audiofili predlažu kruto ožičenje. Zar nije licnata žica pogodnija za visoke frekvencije zbog spin efekta? Dobro u audiu se ne može pričati baš o nekim jako visokim frekvencijama, ali opet one daju boju zvuku. Također ljudsko uho je osjetljivije negdje oko 1kHz.
Ajd ako netko zna neka nas prosvijetli samo molim fizikalno, znanstveno utemeljeno objašnjenje a ne neko audiofilsko
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Staro 09.01.2007., 21:55   #73
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@crni... to je licna, znači jedan vod ima milijone tankih neizoliranih žica... probaj kruti kabel pa vidi.

@lacy... misliš skin efekta?

mogu ti ja sad tu prepisat tonu texta iz bilanove knjige, ali mi se stvarno ne da... ukratko recimo jedan od boljih ustroja je utp kruti kabel - znači 8 krutih žica, međusobno isprepletene i izolirane (teorija).

doma imam utp samogradnju, pozlaćene banane, termobužir bla-bla... stavim vdh royal jade (nešto slično kao ovaj bandridge, ali 80kn po metru) i sistem ono do jaja svira... basevi malo isplivaju van, visoki se sakriju (praksa)

znanstveno nemam nikaj za reć
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Staro 09.01.2007., 21:58   #74
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ali i to opet samo u nekakvom 'Audio Creation Modu' tako da ne znam kako to u stvari funkcionira...
audio creation je jedan od 3 predefined moda (uz entertainment i game), ali za svaki od modova mogu se rucno namjestiti postavke koje ti odgovaraju...
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Staro 09.01.2007., 22:09   #75
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@lacy... misliš skin efekta?
Ma da naravno, skin efekt. Radim nešto pa sam usput odgovorio i zbrljao naravno.

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mogu ti ja sad tu prepisat tonu texta iz bilanove knjige, ali mi se stvarno ne da... ukratko recimo jedan od boljih ustroja je utp kruti kabel - znači 8 krutih žica, međusobno isprepletene i izolirane (teorija).

doma imam utp samogradnju, pozlaćene banane, termobužir bla-bla... stavim vdh royal jade (nešto slično kao ovaj bandridge, ali 80kn po metru) i sistem ono do jaja svira... basevi malo isplivaju van, visoki se sakriju (praksa)

znanstveno nemam nikaj za reć