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Staro 17.09.2018., 10:18   #1
estugarda
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pro-mobile.hr (iskustva)

Ima tko iskustva sa pro-mobile.hr?

Cijene, barem za Samsung su im konkuretne. Iako, na dosta oglasa im ispod piše;
"Uređaj je NOV i NEKORIŠTEN, radi na sve mreže.
Otkupljen od druge tvrtke ili fizičke osobe
stoga toga mu je cijena niža od tržišne.
Na računu je iskazana UKUPNA svota naknade i PDV-a.
PDV nije zasebno iskazan."
Koliko su pouzdani?
Ima tko iskustva?
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Audio: Fiio Q1 DAC + AudioTechnica M50x
Input: Logitech G915 + Logitech MX Master 2S
OS: Windows 10 Pro x64


In progress...


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SSD: Samsung Evo Plus M.2 NVME 250GB
PSU: Seasonic 620W
CASE: Fractal Core 2300
Display: 32" LCD TV + BENQ W1070 DLP projector
Sound: Yamaha RX481 + ELAC Cinema 5.1
Input: Logitech vulgaris



CPU: AMD Athlon X2 5050e @0.8-2.6GHz + AC Freezer 64 Pro PWM
MBO: Gigabyte GA-M720-US3
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HDD: Seagate 7200.10 250GB single platter (Speedy Gonzales)
PSU: Chieftec 400W
CASE: Frontier generic
Display: 22" LCD AOC 2230Hf + ACER X1160 DLP projector
Sound: Logitech S-220 2.1
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2017: FX-8370E, ASRock 990FX Extreme3
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2012: i7 3610QM, Asus N76VZ
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2010: AMD Phenom II X6 1090T, Thuban, ASrock 880G Extreme3
2010: AMD Phenom II X4 Deneb 945, Gigabyte 790X-DS4
2009: Intel C2Q Q6600, GIGABYTE EP31
2008: AMD Athlon X2 Winsdor 5600+ AM2, MSI K9N Neo V3, Gigabyte 790x
2008: Intel Core2Duo T7200, Toshiba A100-847
2007: AMD Athlon X2 4600+ Manchester S939, ASUS A8n32-SLI Deluxe
2005: AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice S939, Asus A8V Deluxe
2003: AMD Athlon XP 2400+ Thoroughbred, Matsonic MS8137C
2003: Intel Pentium III Mobile 1000 Tualatin, Compaq Evo N110
2002: AMD Duron 1200, Matsonic MS8127C
2001: AMD Duron 800, Matsonic MS8127C
1998: Intel Pentium II 300 Klamath
1996: Intel Pentium 120
1993: Intel i386SXSA 40MHz(turbo)
1991: Intel 286 @20Mhz


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Staro 17.09.2018., 11:29   #2
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Gledamo Note9 - 400kn su jeftiniji od SD-a (7.299 vs 7.699), ali i 200kn skuplji od hg-a (7.081kn).
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Staro 17.09.2018., 13:23   #3
estugarda
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Za ovo što ja gledam (Note8) su uvjerljivo su najjefitniji.
Pitao sam ih, i kažu da je skroz nov, vakumirani mobitel sa originalnom naljepnicom.
Zbunilo me ovo njihovo naglašavanje "Otkupljen od druge tvrtke ili fizičke osobe
stoga mu je cijena niža od tržišne." Osim toga, djeluju ozbiljno. I na netu nisam našao nešto loše. Ali nisam nikad ni čuo za njih.
Zato sam htio čuti vaše mišljenje.
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PSU: Seasonic 620W
CASE: Fractal Core 2300
Display: 32" LCD TV + BENQ W1070 DLP projector
Sound: Yamaha RX481 + ELAC Cinema 5.1
Input: Logitech vulgaris



CPU: AMD Athlon X2 5050e @0.8-2.6GHz + AC Freezer 64 Pro PWM
MBO: Gigabyte GA-M720-US3
RAM: Kingmax 2x2GB DDR2 800MHz
VGA: Gigabyte GeForce 8600 GTS SP
HDD: Seagate 7200.10 250GB single platter (Speedy Gonzales)
PSU: Chieftec 400W
CASE: Frontier generic
Display: 22" LCD AOC 2230Hf + ACER X1160 DLP projector
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2012: i7 3610QM, Asus N76VZ
2011: AMD Athlon II X4 640, Gigabyte MA770-UD3
2010: AMD Phenom II X6 1090T, Thuban, ASrock 880G Extreme3
2010: AMD Phenom II X4 Deneb 945, Gigabyte 790X-DS4
2009: Intel C2Q Q6600, GIGABYTE EP31
2008: AMD Athlon X2 Winsdor 5600+ AM2, MSI K9N Neo V3, Gigabyte 790x
2008: Intel Core2Duo T7200, Toshiba A100-847
2007: AMD Athlon X2 4600+ Manchester S939, ASUS A8n32-SLI Deluxe
2005: AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice S939, Asus A8V Deluxe
2003: AMD Athlon XP 2400+ Thoroughbred, Matsonic MS8137C
2003: Intel Pentium III Mobile 1000 Tualatin, Compaq Evo N110
2002: AMD Duron 1200, Matsonic MS8127C
2001: AMD Duron 800, Matsonic MS8127C
1998: Intel Pentium II 300 Klamath
1996: Intel Pentium 120
1993: Intel i386SXSA 40MHz(turbo)
1991: Intel 286 @20Mhz


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Staro 17.09.2018., 14:02   #4
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Otkupljen od firme u stecaju ili bankrotu (ne razumijem se u te spike), sa racunom koji glasi na istoimenu firmu, pa u slucaju kvara ili povrata novca se vracaju soldi - tebi ili nepostojecoj firmi? Provjeri detalje oko racuna i garancije.
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Staro 17.09.2018., 14:05   #5
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Good point.


EDIT: Pitao sam za račun. Kaže da izdaju račun na moje ime. Za jamstvo ništa nisu rekli. To sam dodatno pitao i čekam odgovor.
EDIT2: Kaže, jamstvo nije vezano za kupca, nego za uređaj. Račun je dokaz da sam kupac. Nisu se izjasnili o tome, je li otkupljeno od bankrotirane firme, ali nisam ni otovreno pitao pa...

Ima li tko možda izravna iskustva s njima?
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OS: Windows 10 Pro x64


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CPU: 7-3610QM @ 2.30GHz
RAM: 2x8GB DDR3 HyperX 1600
VGA: NVIDIA GeForce GT 650m 2GB
SSD: Crucial MX100 256 GB
HDD: WD Scorpio Black 750GB @ 7200
Audio: Fiio Q1 DAC + AudioTechnica M50x
Input: Logitech G915 + Logitech MX Master 2S
OS: Windows 10 Pro x64


In progress...


CPU: AMD Ryzen 4350G @2.8GHz + AMD stock cooler
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SSD: Samsung Evo Plus M.2 NVME 250GB
PSU: Seasonic 620W
CASE: Fractal Core 2300
Display: 32" LCD TV + BENQ W1070 DLP projector
Sound: Yamaha RX481 + ELAC Cinema 5.1
Input: Logitech vulgaris



CPU: AMD Athlon X2 5050e @0.8-2.6GHz + AC Freezer 64 Pro PWM
MBO: Gigabyte GA-M720-US3
RAM: Kingmax 2x2GB DDR2 800MHz
VGA: Gigabyte GeForce 8600 GTS SP
HDD: Seagate 7200.10 250GB single platter (Speedy Gonzales)
PSU: Chieftec 400W
CASE: Frontier generic
Display: 22" LCD AOC 2230Hf + ACER X1160 DLP projector
Sound: Logitech S-220 2.1
Input: Logitech vulgaris
OS: Windows 8.1 PRO x64


2017: FX-8370E, ASRock 990FX Extreme3
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2015: i7 6700k, Asus Z170-A
2014: FX-8350, ASRock 990FX Extreme3
2012: i7 3610QM, Asus N76VZ
2011: AMD Athlon II X4 640, Gigabyte MA770-UD3
2010: AMD Phenom II X6 1090T, Thuban, ASrock 880G Extreme3
2010: AMD Phenom II X4 Deneb 945, Gigabyte 790X-DS4
2009: Intel C2Q Q6600, GIGABYTE EP31
2008: AMD Athlon X2 Winsdor 5600+ AM2, MSI K9N Neo V3, Gigabyte 790x
2008: Intel Core2Duo T7200, Toshiba A100-847
2007: AMD Athlon X2 4600+ Manchester S939, ASUS A8n32-SLI Deluxe
2005: AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice S939, Asus A8V Deluxe
2003: AMD Athlon XP 2400+ Thoroughbred, Matsonic MS8137C
2003: Intel Pentium III Mobile 1000 Tualatin, Compaq Evo N110
2002: AMD Duron 1200, Matsonic MS8127C
2001: AMD Duron 800, Matsonic MS8127C
1998: Intel Pentium II 300 Klamath
1996: Intel Pentium 120
1993: Intel i386SXSA 40MHz(turbo)
1991: Intel 286 @20Mhz



Zadnje izmijenjeno od: estugarda. 17.09.2018. u 18:12.
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Staro 17.09.2018., 17:18   #6
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Za ovo što ja gledam (Note8) su uvjerljivo su najjefitniji.
Šta ti točno gledaš?
Jeftiniji su 100-200 kn od pouzdanih trgovina:
https://www.nabava.net/mobiteli/sams...droid-46813111

Stvarno ne znam zašto bi se za takvu cifru zamarao s njima.
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Staro 17.09.2018., 18:08   #7
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Pa mozda su i oni pouzdani! I to se ponekad desi. Zato pitam ovdje.
Konkretno gledam crni note8 64. Crni je kod njih jeftiniji cca 350kn. Ne znam kak je tebi, ali meni to nije zanemariva cifra.
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Display: Dell U2715h + U2407WFP
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Input: Logitech G915 + Logitech G602
OS: Windows 10 Pro x64


Asus N76VZ
CPU: 7-3610QM @ 2.30GHz
RAM: 2x8GB DDR3 HyperX 1600
VGA: NVIDIA GeForce GT 650m 2GB
SSD: Crucial MX100 256 GB
HDD: WD Scorpio Black 750GB @ 7200
Audio: Fiio Q1 DAC + AudioTechnica M50x
Input: Logitech G915 + Logitech MX Master 2S
OS: Windows 10 Pro x64


In progress...


CPU: AMD Ryzen 4350G @2.8GHz + AMD stock cooler
MBO: ASrock B550m Phantom Gaming
RAM: GSkill 2x8GB DDR4 3600MHz
VGA: AMD Vega 6
SSD: Samsung Evo Plus M.2 NVME 250GB
PSU: Seasonic 620W
CASE: Fractal Core 2300
Display: 32" LCD TV + BENQ W1070 DLP projector
Sound: Yamaha RX481 + ELAC Cinema 5.1
Input: Logitech vulgaris



CPU: AMD Athlon X2 5050e @0.8-2.6GHz + AC Freezer 64 Pro PWM
MBO: Gigabyte GA-M720-US3
RAM: Kingmax 2x2GB DDR2 800MHz
VGA: Gigabyte GeForce 8600 GTS SP
HDD: Seagate 7200.10 250GB single platter (Speedy Gonzales)
PSU: Chieftec 400W
CASE: Frontier generic
Display: 22" LCD AOC 2230Hf + ACER X1160 DLP projector
Sound: Logitech S-220 2.1
Input: Logitech vulgaris
OS: Windows 8.1 PRO x64


2017: FX-8370E, ASRock 990FX Extreme3
2016: FX-8320E, Asus M5A97 PRO
2015: i7 6700k, Asus Z170-A
2014: FX-8350, ASRock 990FX Extreme3
2012: i7 3610QM, Asus N76VZ
2011: AMD Athlon II X4 640, Gigabyte MA770-UD3
2010: AMD Phenom II X6 1090T, Thuban, ASrock 880G Extreme3
2010: AMD Phenom II X4 Deneb 945, Gigabyte 790X-DS4
2009: Intel C2Q Q6600, GIGABYTE EP31
2008: AMD Athlon X2 Winsdor 5600+ AM2, MSI K9N Neo V3, Gigabyte 790x
2008: Intel Core2Duo T7200, Toshiba A100-847
2007: AMD Athlon X2 4600+ Manchester S939, ASUS A8n32-SLI Deluxe
2005: AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice S939, Asus A8V Deluxe
2003: AMD Athlon XP 2400+ Thoroughbred, Matsonic MS8137C
2003: Intel Pentium III Mobile 1000 Tualatin, Compaq Evo N110
2002: AMD Duron 1200, Matsonic MS8127C
2001: AMD Duron 800, Matsonic MS8127C
1998: Intel Pentium II 300 Klamath
1996: Intel Pentium 120
1993: Intel i386SXSA 40MHz(turbo)
1991: Intel 286 @20Mhz


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Staro 17.09.2018., 18:10   #8
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Pardon. Slucajni duplic. Molim brisanje.
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CPU: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2950X @ stock + Noctua NH-U12S
RAM: 4x16GB DDR4 Corsair Vengance LPX 3200
VGA: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 1080 Ti 11GB
SSD: Samsung Evo Plus 500 m.2 NVMe
HDD: Toshiba 3TB
PSU: Corsair CX650M
CASE: Fractal Design Meshify C
Display: Dell U2715h + U2407WFP
Audio: Asus Xonar U7 MK2 + Logitech Z-5500 5.1
Input: Logitech G915 + Logitech G602
OS: Windows 10 Pro x64


Asus N76VZ
CPU: 7-3610QM @ 2.30GHz
RAM: 2x8GB DDR3 HyperX 1600
VGA: NVIDIA GeForce GT 650m 2GB
SSD: Crucial MX100 256 GB
HDD: WD Scorpio Black 750GB @ 7200
Audio: Fiio Q1 DAC + AudioTechnica M50x
Input: Logitech G915 + Logitech MX Master 2S
OS: Windows 10 Pro x64


In progress...


CPU: AMD Ryzen 4350G @2.8GHz + AMD stock cooler
MBO: ASrock B550m Phantom Gaming
RAM: GSkill 2x8GB DDR4 3600MHz
VGA: AMD Vega 6
SSD: Samsung Evo Plus M.2 NVME 250GB
PSU: Seasonic 620W
CASE: Fractal Core 2300
Display: 32" LCD TV + BENQ W1070 DLP projector
Sound: Yamaha RX481 + ELAC Cinema 5.1
Input: Logitech vulgaris



CPU: AMD Athlon X2 5050e @0.8-2.6GHz + AC Freezer 64 Pro PWM
MBO: Gigabyte GA-M720-US3
RAM: Kingmax 2x2GB DDR2 800MHz
VGA: Gigabyte GeForce 8600 GTS SP
HDD: Seagate 7200.10 250GB single platter (Speedy Gonzales)
PSU: Chieftec 400W
CASE: Frontier generic
Display: 22" LCD AOC 2230Hf + ACER X1160 DLP projector
Sound: Logitech S-220 2.1
Input: Logitech vulgaris
OS: Windows 8.1 PRO x64


2017: FX-8370E, ASRock 990FX Extreme3
2016: FX-8320E, Asus M5A97 PRO
2015: i7 6700k, Asus Z170-A
2014: FX-8350, ASRock 990FX Extreme3
2012: i7 3610QM, Asus N76VZ
2011: AMD Athlon II X4 640, Gigabyte MA770-UD3
2010: AMD Phenom II X6 1090T, Thuban, ASrock 880G Extreme3
2010: AMD Phenom II X4 Deneb 945, Gigabyte 790X-DS4
2009: Intel C2Q Q6600, GIGABYTE EP31
2008: AMD Athlon X2 Winsdor 5600+ AM2, MSI K9N Neo V3, Gigabyte 790x
2008: Intel Core2Duo T7200, Toshiba A100-847
2007: AMD Athlon X2 4600+ Manchester S939, ASUS A8n32-SLI Deluxe
2005: AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice S939, Asus A8V Deluxe
2003: AMD Athlon XP 2400+ Thoroughbred, Matsonic MS8137C
2003: Intel Pentium III Mobile 1000 Tualatin, Compaq Evo N110
2002: AMD Duron 1200, Matsonic MS8127C
2001: AMD Duron 800, Matsonic MS8127C
1998: Intel Pentium II 300 Klamath
1996: Intel Pentium 120
1993: Intel i386SXSA 40MHz(turbo)
1991: Intel 286 @20Mhz


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Staro 17.09.2018., 18:16   #9
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Pa mozda su i oni pouzdani! I to se ponekad desi. Zato pitam ovdje.
Pouzdanost se stječe godinama.
Koliko ja vidim, to nije ni firma nego obrt, posluju jedva 2 godine, nedovoljno da bi se ispunili bilo kakvi kriteriji o pouzdanosti i nedovoljno za bilo kakve ocjene.
Pouzdanost ne znači "kupio sam i poslali su mi."
Treba vidjeti kako će rješavati jamstvo tamo za nekih 2 godine, možda će vlasnik biti u Irskoj i konobariti, a ne da će rješavati tvoj crknuti telefon.

Citiraj:
Konkretno gledam crni note8 64. Crni je kod njih jeftiniji cca 350kn. Ne znam kak je tebi, ali meni to nije zanemariva cifra.
Na tu cifru je itekako zanemarivo, pogotovo zato što kupuješ od obrta koji nešto prebacuje, mulja, otkupljuje i ostale gluposti.
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Staro 17.09.2018., 18:29   #10
estugarda
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I pouzdani shopovi su jednom poslovali samo 2 godine. Ja sam do sada 2x reklamirao telefon, i oba puta sam ga nosio u ovlašteni servis jer je tako bilo lakse i brze. Dakle ni ne ocekujem da ce mi to trgovac raditi, makar bi trebao. Ono sto je tu kljucno po meni je jesu li cisti papiri i salju li cigle? Ako platim i u razumnom roku dobijem uredjaj kako je opisano, sa cistim papirima i to za 350kn manje, to je za mene win. Da su obrt, to jest zanimljivo. I pomalo je sve neobicno. To priznam. Ali zato i trazim iskustva.
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RAM: 4x16GB DDR4 Corsair Vengance LPX 3200
VGA: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 1080 Ti 11GB
SSD: Samsung Evo Plus 500 m.2 NVMe
HDD: Toshiba 3TB
PSU: Corsair CX650M
CASE: Fractal Design Meshify C
Display: Dell U2715h + U2407WFP
Audio: Asus Xonar U7 MK2 + Logitech Z-5500 5.1
Input: Logitech G915 + Logitech G602
OS: Windows 10 Pro x64


Asus N76VZ
CPU: 7-3610QM @ 2.30GHz
RAM: 2x8GB DDR3 HyperX 1600
VGA: NVIDIA GeForce GT 650m 2GB
SSD: Crucial MX100 256 GB
HDD: WD Scorpio Black 750GB @ 7200
Audio: Fiio Q1 DAC + AudioTechnica M50x
Input: Logitech G915 + Logitech MX Master 2S
OS: Windows 10 Pro x64


In progress...


CPU: AMD Ryzen 4350G @2.8GHz + AMD stock cooler
MBO: ASrock B550m Phantom Gaming
RAM: GSkill 2x8GB DDR4 3600MHz
VGA: AMD Vega 6
SSD: Samsung Evo Plus M.2 NVME 250GB
PSU: Seasonic 620W
CASE: Fractal Core 2300
Display: 32" LCD TV + BENQ W1070 DLP projector
Sound: Yamaha RX481 + ELAC Cinema 5.1
Input: Logitech vulgaris



CPU: AMD Athlon X2 5050e @0.8-2.6GHz + AC Freezer 64 Pro PWM
MBO: Gigabyte GA-M720-US3
RAM: Kingmax 2x2GB DDR2 800MHz
VGA: Gigabyte GeForce 8600 GTS SP
HDD: Seagate 7200.10 250GB single platter (Speedy Gonzales)
PSU: Chieftec 400W
CASE: Frontier generic
Display: 22" LCD AOC 2230Hf + ACER X1160 DLP projector
Sound: Logitech S-220 2.1
Input: Logitech vulgaris
OS: Windows 8.1 PRO x64


2017: FX-8370E, ASRock 990FX Extreme3
2016: FX-8320E, Asus M5A97 PRO
2015: i7 6700k, Asus Z170-A
2014: FX-8350, ASRock 990FX Extreme3
2012: i7 3610QM, Asus N76VZ
2011: AMD Athlon II X4 640, Gigabyte MA770-UD3
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2002: AMD Duron 1200, Matsonic MS8127C
2001: AMD Duron 800, Matsonic MS8127C
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Staro 17.09.2018., 18:35   #11
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Obzirom da vjerojatno nisu u sustavu pdv-a, gledaj da bi kod drugih bila 25% skuplje.
Lose za firme, dobro za privatne osobe.
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Staro 17.09.2018., 18:45   #12
estugarda
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Kaže aplikacija za provjeru na poreznoj: " Porezni obveznik je obveznik PDV-a na dan 17.09.2018."
E sad, ako izdaje maloprodajni racun, mora biti u sustavu ili?
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Staro 17.09.2018., 22:04   #13
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ne mora, zasto si razbijas glavu glupostima
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Staro 17.09.2018., 22:33   #14
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I pouzdani shopovi su jednom poslovali samo 2 godine. Ja sam do sada 2x reklamirao telefon, i oba puta sam ga nosio u ovlašteni servis jer je tako bilo lakse i brze. Dakle ni ne ocekujem da ce mi to trgovac raditi, makar bi trebao. Ono sto je tu kljucno po meni je jesu li cisti papiri i salju li cigle? Ako platim i u razumnom roku dobijem uredjaj kako je opisano, sa cistim papirima i to za 350kn manje, to je za mene win. Da su obrt, to jest zanimljivo. I pomalo je sve neobicno. To priznam. Ali zato i trazim iskustva.
Papiri nisu čisti, to si i sam zaključio. Hoćeš na silu da ti netko kaže da je sve u redu, a nije.
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Staro 17.09.2018., 23:55   #15
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ne mora, zasto si razbijas glavu glupostima
Ne kužim.

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Papiri nisu čisti, to si i sam zaključio. Hoćeš na silu da ti netko kaže da je sve u redu, a nije.
Ne. Pokušavam prokužiti priču. Što do sada očito nisam uspio. Ako netko ima neko konkretno objašnjenje, molim lijepo. Može i na PM.
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Staro 18.09.2018., 07:52   #16
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Mozda su mobovi otkupljeni iz inozemstva. Onda mozes imati mali problem oko reklamacija. Nas ovlasteni bi te mogao usmjeriti na trgovinu gdje si kupio mob jer mob nije predvidjen za hr trziste. To provjeris sa IMEI brojem i pitas ovlastenog.

Neke nase trgovine vec imaju slicnu ponudu (Neutrino i cini mi se Uzi) gdje uz oglas imas HR i DE oznake. Nije to losa praksa ako je shop pouzdan, samo navodim kao primjer.

Losa stvar je ako te shop zajebava ili propadne. Za 350kn na toliki iznos se po mom misljenju ne isplati riskirati.
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Staro 18.09.2018., 09:46   #17
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Razina kvalitete komunikacije je iznenada pala kad sam spomenuo IMEI i porijeklo.
Definitivno je nešto čudno.
Ako budem išao u ZG za vikend, provjerit ću u trgovini IMEI.

Hvala svima.
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2009: Intel C2Q Q6600, GIGABYTE EP31
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2003: Intel Pentium III Mobile 1000 Tualatin, Compaq Evo N110
2002: AMD Duron 1200, Matsonic MS8127C
2001: AMD Duron 800, Matsonic MS8127C
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Staro 18.09.2018., 09:49   #18
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ja sam prije par godina kupio jedan samsung u njemačkoj i normalno sam ovdje u našem ovlaštenom servisu servisirao unutar jamstva.

koliko mi je poznato jamstvo bi trebalo normalno vrijediti za mobitel koji je kupljen bilo gdje unutar EU.
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Staro 18.09.2018., 10:28   #19
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Pisao sam vec u Huawei temi, kupio mob u UK, Agram rekao "moze se servisirati, posaljite ga", na kraju trebalo mijenjati maticnu pa se tu upetljao Huawei Hrvatska i poceo traziti warranty card jer je mob inace za francusko trziste, a ne hr. To je mogao i Agram provjeriti prije nego su ga primili. Trgovina u UK kaze ne postoji warranty card, posaljite ga nama, mi cemo to izhendlati dalje. Otkantao Agram, poslao njima, oni u Francusku i vratili ga popravljenog. EU jamstvo.

Samo kazem, nemoj se zajebati da ne bi bilo. Ako ikako mozes barem se maksimalno raspitaj. Ja sam se zajebao jer sam slijepo vjerovao da EU jamstvo ne postavlja pitanja i prodao taj mob s vazecom garancijom. Da sam znao da ce me sutra nasi ovlasteni hebati s garancijom prodao bi ga bez garancije.
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