Nadolazeći AMD socketi, ploče i procesori

[Bono]

Nije ni malo slican procesor od Intela kosta 2000 dolara i ima TDP od 120W j max turbo boost mu je na 3ghz. Ne sumnjam da nece biti konkurentan samo me eto iznenadio tdp, vise bi pasao taj tdp na 32c procesor

[Gigi1]

user7341 sa reddita....

Zen Power Draw, or: Why I'm Not Afraid of 32-Core Skylake


We'll start here: http://imagescdn.tweaktown.com/conte...cpu-review.png

This shows the 1800X, which handily beats the 6900K in performance at stock values, running 12% lower power at full load and using two-thirds less power at idle. There are two factors not counted in to this. 1) Ryzen is a SoC which has lots of the I/O functionality built in, so that power budget is used on the CPU instead of the chipset. 2) Naples 2p systems will use infinity fabric built into the CPU to communicate between CPUs and attached devices where Intel's systems must communicate through a slower southbridge chipset which consumes more power (and those chipsets are manufactured on older, less power-efficient nodes). Both of these factors mean the gap reported is likely to be even more in AMD's favor for server parts.

Here you can see the same comparison with both CPUs locked to 4GHz: http://imagescdn.tweaktown.com/conte...cpu-review.png

This is less favorable, on the surface of the thing, but if you actually examine what this means, it's very important and a very good indicator for AMD. Idle power draw is still very, very good compared to Intel HEDT. Again, the onboard I/O is contributing an unknown amount of power to the total draw for Ryzen, but that's not the important part. The important part is that you can see that the fully-loaded draw ramps up between 3.6GHz and 4.0GHz enough to shift the advantage to Intel. That means AMD's Ryzen chips are already binned pretty high on their ideal power curve and reducing the frequency by a few hundred megahertz can save a massive amount of power. (This will be confirmed in some other charts.)

This chart gives comparative numbers for a wider variety of CPUs: http://www.techspot.com/articles-inf...h/Power_02.png

This is full system load, not just CPU draw, so it's not a perfect data set but it's still very telling. Notice the big drops from the 1800X down to the 1700X. Notice how close the 1700X is to 4c Devil's Canyon and 6c Broadwell-E. Also take note that Intel's Broadwell-E 8c part (6900K) makes an unfavorable showing compared to it's Haswell-E predecessor. This is mostly due to the clock speed differences, but it shows that there's very little power efficiency gained between those generations.

These two reviews show that that efficiency gain continues very well from the 1700X down to the 1700: http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages..._review,7.html http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages..._review,7.html

This chart from PC Perspective provides more confirmation of Ryzen's power advantage over Broadwell-E: https://www.pcper.com/files/review/2017-02-27/power.png

Remember, the 1800X trounces the 6900K in Cinebench R15, so even if it were using more power, it would be more efficient. Again, this chart is using full system load, so it's not ideal. However, that's at least partially off-set by the onboard I/O vs. chipset power (which is to say that some of that "full system draw" on Intel's side is counted in the CPU draw on AMD's side).

Ryzen total system power compares remarkably well with 4c Kaby Lake: https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/..._1800X/14.html

So what does all of this mean for Naples? Well, first, it means AMD is already crushing Broadwell-E in performance-per-watt. Skylake-E is a new platform and we don't know everything about it, yet, so Intel could surprise us with some amazing power efficiency gains, but comparing the desktop platforms shows us that Skylake did not make significant gains in power efficiency from Broadwell. So given what we know about Haswell to Broadwell to Skylake on the desktop and what we know about Haswell-E to Broadwell-E, it certainly doesn't give us any reason to expect a surprise from Skylake-E.

It also means the Samsung/GloFo process is demonstrating a very good power curve. Server parts are not likely to be clocked at 4GHz. The rumored 32 core Skylake part runs at a speed of 2.3 GHz. Extrapolating from the power curve of Ryzen 7, it seems like AMD and GloFo will handily beat Intel's power efficiency at that speed. The MCM design of Naples could also enable them to offer higher clock-speeds (we'll have to wait and see on this).

So, Naples probably offers a more competitive price out of the box, better TCO and vastly superior I/O. But it's okay, because Intel still has AVX-512! Right, Brian?

[Manuel Calavera]

AMD Targets Wireless Desktop VR, Acquires Nitero

[Gigi1]

fino, zahuktava se i u hedt segmentu

http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-16-12-...n-cpus-leaked/

ako se ne varam skylake-x od intela ide na max 12c/24t(bar po najavama) i mislim da je intel svjestan da u ovoj generaciji ne moze parirati amd-u po potrošnji/zagrijavanju pa vjerojatno iz istog razloga ne idu na veci br.jezgri.
jos da je vidjeti kako ce oba tabora formirati cijene..

[Bariarnil]

Autor Gigi1

fino, zahuktava se i u hedt segmentu

http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-16-12-...n-cpus-leaked/

ako se ne varam skylake-x od intela ide na max 12c/24t(bar po najavama) i mislim da je intel svjestan da u ovoj generaciji ne moze parirati amd-u po potrošnji/zagrijavanju pa vjerojatno iz istog razloga ne idu na veci br.jezgri.
jos da je vidjeti kako ce oba tabora formirati cijene..

To bi bilo točno da Intelovi HEDT nisu Xeoni koje cutdownaju i stave u X299. AMD izbacuje 32core Naples, a Intel je sada objavio 'samo' 28core Xeon. Misiš da tu staje? Nop, već postoje rumori za 32core, čeka se AMD. S druge strane, Ryzen troši oko 5w manje od konkurenta s Intel strane u HEDT-u, to je taman razlika za koju će SkylakeX i KabyLakeX biti efikasniji od Ryzena

[Gigi1]

Autor Bariarnil

To bi bilo točno da Intelovi HEDT nisu Xeoni koje cutdownaju i stave u X299. AMD izbacuje 32core Naples, a Intel je sada objavio 'samo' 28core Xeon. Misiš da tu staje? Nop, već postoje rumori za 32core, čeka se AMD.

Mislis da bi Intel samo tako olako prepustio amd vodstvo u core countu - da svi pisu bombasticne naslove amd naples, mrcina od 32 jezgre koja ce spastiti svijet malo sam pretjerao ali kuzis poantu, to je prakticki free marketing nekako sumljam da bi intel to samo tako prepustio

Autor Bariarnil

S druge strane, Ryzen troši oko 5w manje od konkurenta s Intel strane u HEDT-u, to je taman razlika za koju će SkylakeX i KabyLakeX biti efikasniji od Ryzena

nisam ovo bas skuzio, ili mozda jesam, ugl. mislim da je puno relanije gledati r7 1700 ili 1700x power draw, a ne od 1800x(tvornicki jako nafrljen), taktovi za 16jezgri su tu negdje za 1700-tkom pa kad se uzme njen power draw razlika od 5w se dosta poveca

[Bariarnil]

Autor Gigi1

Mislis da bi Intel samo tako olako prepustio amd vodstvo u core countu - da svi pisu bombasticne naslove amd naples, mrcina od 32 jezgre koja ce spastiti svijet malo sam pretjerao ali kuzis poantu, to je prakticki free marketing nekako sumljam da bi intel to samo tako prepustio



nisam ovo bas skuzio, ili mozda jesam, ugl. mislim da je puno relanije gledati r7 1700 ili 1700x power draw, a ne od 1800x(tvornicki jako nafrljen), taktovi za 16jezgri su tu negdje za 1700-tkom pa kad se uzme njen power draw razlika od 5w se dosta poveca

Nisam ni rekao da bi Intel olako prepustio vodstvo. Upravo suprotno, postoje rumori za 32core Xeon.
Kasnije sam samo natuknuo da 1800X troši točno 4w do 5w manje od 6900K stock vs stock. Slažem se da je 1700 daleko bolja kupnja od 1800X i da troši još oko 25w do 30w manje(mozda, nisam vidio testove).

[Manuel Calavera]

Cijena tu igra veliku ulogu. Intel je za 10c20t tražio 1700$, pretpostavljam da 12c24t neće biti puno jeftiniji, ako uopće bude jeftiniji. S druge strane AMD će nešto više od 1000$ (treba vidjeti koliko cijene pci-e lanese i quad channel) tražiti za 16c32t, te još ako per core budu iole sličnih performansi...

[Manuel Calavera]

AMD Zen Based Enterprise CPU / APU Roadmap Leaked: 14nm Naples With 32 Cores in 2017, 7nm Starship With 48 Cores in 2018 – Zen 1 and Zen 2 Based Horned Own, Grey Hawk, Banded Kestrel and River Hawk CPUs Detailed

Zatim iz drugog članka:

AMD X399 HEDT Platform May Be Announced at Computex, Launching Along side Intel’s X299 – Boards Already In Production

On the X399 front, we have been getting a lot of details lately. Alleged specifications of AMD X399 HEDT Ryzen processors were leaked yesterday and we got the chipset block diagrams a while back too. AMD’s X399 platform will have a lot in common with the Snowy Owl “Naples” chips that were reported just few hours back but they are configured for a new socket, not packaged in BGA as form factor as the Snowy Owl based processors. The chips will have various configurations, we can expect anywhere from 8, 12, 16 cores which would compete directly against Intel’s X299 Skylake X series processors that will come in 6, 8, 10 and 12 core variants.

The most interesting fact is that AMD is eyeing an X399 launch window alongside Intel’s X299 so we can guess that these chips arrive as early as next month. Intel’s X299 platform will also be announced at the Computex floor, followed by NDA lift on 12th June and finally market availability on 26th June. We can expect the fight between the two HEDT platforms (X299 vs X399) to be really brutal, giving both CPU makers a chance to pit their best high-end desktop chip against one another. We have also heard from our sources that AMD is already planning to bring forth an army of X399 boards which are already in production.

[Bariarnil]

Autor Manuel Calavera

AMD Zen Based Enterprise CPU / APU Roadmap Leaked: 14nm Naples With 32 Cores in 2017, 7nm Starship With 48 Cores in 2018 – Zen 1 and Zen 2 Based Horned Own, Grey Hawk, Banded Kestrel and River Hawk CPUs Detailed

Zatim iz drugog članka:

Oštra borba na cpu frontu. Odlično. Još kad bi se X399 ploče mogle naći bar za 200€+ bilo bi optimalno.

@Manuel, zar stvarno misliš da bi Intel to učinio? Dopustio da izgube negdje i to za tolku razliku u cijeni? Pa pogledaj što im NVidia radi. 1080 se prodavo $700+ sve dok nisu iz sprdnje izbacili artiljeriju da kontriraju Vegi.

[cccp]

Nitko ništa u ovom biznisu ne izbacuje iz sprdnje. Ti proizvodi i njihovi kupci, s druge strane, mogu biti sprdnja. CPU se ne slaže kao lego kockice pa kada konkurencija izbaci CPU sa 16 jezgri, mi dodamo još 4 da konkuriramo. To je dugotrajan proces.

Intel trenutno zaostaje u broju jezgri po socketu (po cijeni) i to se neće tako brzo promijeniti. Naravno broj jezgri nije sva priča. Tu govorim o HEDT tržištu ako su x299 i x399 gotova priča, a čini se da i u serverskom svijetu pobjeđuju, međutim tu je broj jezgri bitan samo za određene segmente.

EDIT: Meni je ipak najzanimljiviji Banded Kestrel SoC i hoće li izbaciti nasljednika AM1 platforme s njim.

[Gigi1]

Naravno, pa to je sve planski, ako zakuha - konkurencijija eventualno ide na raniji launch od originalno najavljenog, ali generalno neke bitijnije/vece preinake nisu moguce.

situacija prema najavama je takva da amd u svim segemntima ima veci core count, nije to bas sad bezveze.

po Kresinom testu 37W manje trosi 1700 od 1800x, sto je osjetno pogotovo kada se core count dodatno poveca

[Bariarnil]

Autor cccp

Nitko ništa u ovom biznisu ne izbacuje iz sprdnje. Ti proizvodi i njihovi kupci, s druge strane, mogu biti sprdnja. CPU se ne slaže kao lego kockice pa kada konkurencija izbaci CPU sa 16 jezgri, mi dodamo još 4 da konkuriramo. To je dugotrajan proces.

Intel trenutno zaostaje u broju jezgri po socketu (po cijeni) i to se neće tako brzo promijeniti. Naravno broj jezgri nije sva priča. Tu govorim o HEDT tržištu ako su x299 i x399 gotova priča, a čini se da i u serverskom svijetu pobjeđuju, međutim tu je broj jezgri bitan samo za određene segmente.

EDIT: Meni je ipak najzanimljiviji Banded Kestrel SoC i hoće li izbaciti nasljednika AM1 platforme s njim.

Intelov najavljeni 12 core je 16core cutdown Xeon, s odsječenim ECC modulom chipa.
Ajmo to postaviti ovako, Intel može staviti 18 core E5 2699 (v3/4? ) pod i7cu na LGA2066, kao što je Nvidia izbacila Titan XP sa 35xx jezgrica pod flagship za 1200 baksi, a kada se trebala pripremiti za Vegu je izbacila puni GP102 čip sa 38xx jezgrica(Titan Xp).
Jasno sad?

Although we call Xeon E5 v3 an “18-core” processor, to be truthful, there’s just one model (“SKU”) where all 18 are present: the 2.3 GHz, 145W TDP E5-2699 v3. Nevertheless, each of the die configurations in the v3 series is based on an 18-core design that may be scaled down for lower cores.

http://www.datacenterdynamics.com/co...71.fullarticle

[nub]

Al amdu fakat treba skinut kapu za imena procova i platformi. X399 vs X299, dakle osim što su u istom segmentu i sličnog imena, intel ostaje bez imena za iduću generaciju nakon x299

Nadam se da će i finalno ime ostat takvo

[Manuel Calavera]

trolaju

Isto je i sa B350

[Trbonja]

Autor cccp

Nitko ništa u ovom biznisu ne izbacuje iz sprdnje. Ti proizvodi i njihovi kupci, s druge strane, mogu biti sprdnja. CPU se ne slaže kao lego kockice pa kada konkurencija izbaci CPU sa 16 jezgri, mi dodamo još 4 da konkuriramo. To je dugotrajan proces.

Intel trenutno zaostaje u broju jezgri po socketu (po cijeni) i to se neće tako brzo promijeniti. Naravno broj jezgri nije sva priča. Tu govorim o HEDT tržištu ako su x299 i x399 gotova priča, a čini se da i u serverskom svijetu pobjeđuju, međutim tu je broj jezgri bitan samo za određene segmente.

EDIT: Meni je ipak najzanimljiviji Banded Kestrel SoC i hoće li izbaciti nasljednika AM1 platforme s njim.

Koje igre pokreću više od 4 jezgri?

[Bariarnil]

Autor Trbonja

Koje igre pokreću više od 4 jezgri?

Ček nisam ni ja skonto. Misliš koriste više od 4 jezgre?

[Manuel Calavera]

Nadam se da se šali kad priča o igrama u kontekstu X399 i X299 platforme. Mislim ono igraju se igre i na takvim konfama, ali nisu glavni razlog uzimanja takvih platformi

Inače ima igara koje koriste i 16 threadova, što naravno ne znači i da ih trebaju ako ih koriste

[cccp]

i7 7700k je najbolji proc svih vremena.

Autor Bariarnil

Intelov najavljeni 12 core je 16core cutdown Xeon, s odsječenim ECC modulom chipa.
Ajmo to postaviti ovako, Intel može staviti 18 core E5 2699 (v3/4? ) pod i7cu na LGA2066, kao što je Nvidia izbacila Titan XP sa 35xx jezgrica pod flagship za 1200 baksi, a kada se trebala pripremiti za Vegu je izbacila puni GP102 čip sa 38xx jezgrica(Titan Xp).
Jasno sad?

http://www.datacenterdynamics.com/co...71.fullarticle

Nije jasno. Misli na dioničare i koliku maržu mora imati Intel da bi ostao u pogonu i na partnere koji bi taj CPU trebali plaćati koliko puta skuplje. Intel ne može spustiti cijenu koliko to može AMD.

[Bariarnil]

Autor cccp

i7 7700k je najbolji proc svih vremena.



Nije jasno. Misli na dioničare i koliku maržu mora imati Intel da bi ostao u pogonu i na partnere koji bi taj CPU trebali plaćati koliko puta skuplje. Intel ne može spustiti cijenu koliko to može AMD.

Sada imamo dvosjekli mač. Intel u HEDT procesorima koji konkuriraju R7cama i R5 6core ne može spuštat cijene iz razloga što su im 2011 veliki čipovi. AMD s druge strane, ne može R3 pozicionirat prenisko jer je to sve cutdown R7 kojeg prodaju i za $500. Intel si može priuštit otić tako nisko. Opet u ovom, 12 i 16 core high endu je pitanje samo želi li intel ostati on top i izbaciti i 22core Xeon(primjer) jer na njemu bi mogao ubosti $2000 tek tako čak i kada ima konkurencije(a to nije mala lova).
Pricas o dionicama, a dionicari nisu bili zadovoljni sa nekim planom zarade kod AMD-a i odma vrijednost dionice otišla 25% niže. Misim da nije samo intel (ili nvidia je pravi primjer) da mora držat određenu cijenu i/ili zaradu.

X399 će nam točno pokazat kolko šta treba vrijedit i kako će konkurencija odgovorit, a vjeruj mi, bit će konkurentna jer su kraljevi segmentacije

[cccp]

OK, ne kužimo se.

[DragonSlayer]

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cpu..._series_cpus/1

Ha? 7 nanometara, 48c/96t procesori. 38 kW TDP, al štaš. Ugl, ako je ovo išta ko ryzen, ima da intelu podere novu rupu iz koje izlaze "procesori".
Hype aside, šta mislite? 7nm zvuči jako dobro.

[Manuel Calavera]

Pričalo se o tih "7nm" ranije, to je bliže intelovom 10nm procesu. U svakom slučaju fenomenalno ako dođe i na AM4 proizvode

Bariarnil

Kužiš da je intel navikao na određenu lovu sa tog tržišta, te ima veće troškove (svoje tvornice, masu zaloslenika, masu uloženog itd.), njima je u interesu održati taj "cash flow", a ne biti kraljevi core/thread counta, prepolovit cijene xeonima i sl. S druge strane amd-u je to win win u svakom slučaju, i širenje marketsharea i zarada (kakava god da bude) jer te prihode prije nisu imali i sve će im biti dobro. Intel s druge strane tu može samo izgubiti. Njima je samo pitanje sto im je bolji damage control - ostaviti visoke cijene, pa prodati manje ili sniziti cijene i prodati više. U oba slučaja će im biti manji prihodi nego do sada.

[Bariarnil]

To je IBM-ov 7nm. Sad kakav je naspram Intela 10nm bumo vidli.

Kad izade X299(i X399) cemo zakljucit sve

[Manuel Calavera]

Zaključit će se kad dođu rezultati prodaje i marketsharea

Ovdje malo spominju za Q1

When asked about the impact of AMD’s recently released Ryzen processors the Intel management team reportedly responded saying they hadn’t “seen anything unusual” in terms of their desktop revenue. A piece on Seeking Alpha though has delved into the numbers and despite making a hell of a profit overall they highlight a 7% year-on-year decline in the unit shipments for the desktop platform, despite the average selling price (ASP) going up by around 2%.


Intel claims that’s not related to the AMD competition, but the report suggests that this decline is worth about $150 million while AMD have an estimated increase in desktop sales of around $152 million. Coincidence? Potentially.


The more telling numbers will be from the performance of Intel’s desktop platform throughout the first half of the year, not just the first quarter. Ryzen didn’t even launch until March, so the current drop might just be a taste of things to come for Intel.

[Bariarnil]

Jedva čekam punu artiljeriju jednih i drugih. To će biti onda to. Nikako da dočekamo pune, kvalitetne proizvode i na cpu i na gpu marketu.

[Gigi1]

jos malo o x399

AMD’s upcoming enthusiast 16 core Ryzen “Threadripper” CPUs and the next generation high-end “Whitehaven” platform will reportedly launch on a monstrous 4096 pin socket shared with AMD’s 32 core Naples parts. The brand new enthusiast Threadripper Ryzen lineup and Whitehaven platform will debut at Computex at the beginning of next month.
AMD Debuting Monstrous 16 Core Threadripper CPUs & SP3r2 Socket For Brand New Enthusiast “Whitehaven” Platform

Threadripper CPUs will reportedly be compatible with a modified version of AMD’s SP3 server socket designed for its upcoming Naples server parts. The Threadripper SP3r2 socket shares the same physical specifications and pin count of SP3 with some differences in maximum thermal design power and some minor technicalities in PCB implementation. The primary difference between the two being that SP3 sockets will also be available in dual socket server boards, while the SP3r2 socket will only be available on single socket boards.

Using the SP3 server socket as a foundation allows AMD to introduce significantly larger chips than Intel’s Skylake X parts as well as what the current mainstream AM4 socket allows. In theory, because the SP3r2 and SP3 sockets are physically the same, AMD has the ability to introduce CPUs with up to 32 cores for its high-end desktop Whitehaven platform although we’re not aware of any such plans.

The Whitehaven platform will include support for quad-channel DDR4 memory support, more PCIe lanes and more storage compared to AMD’s X370 on AM4. It will compete directly with Intel’s upcoming HEDT X299 platform and Skylake X CPUs which will feature up to 12 cores.

The upcoming family of enthusiast Threadripper CPUs are considerably larger than the current Ryzen lineup which is why they will not be compatible with AM4. The upcoming enthusiast chips will feature up to 16 cores and 32 threads making them the most powerful desktop CPUs ever introduced in the industry.

The whitehaven platform offers more I/O, storage, significantly more cores, threads and L3 Cache compared to Intel’s upcoming X299. Ryzen has also established AMD’s Zen architecture as the most power efficient x86 micro architecture to date, putting another arrow in the quiver of Whitehaven’s competitiveness.

With a 16 core part in the high-end desktop the Zen architecture is well on its way to displacing Intel’s Extreme edition processors from the performance throne that they’ve long held on to for too long. Threadripper may be the first CPU family from AMD to win the ultimate performance crown since the aptly named “hammer” architecture & Athlon 64 parts hammered Intel’s Extreme Editions nearly 14 years ago.

[Manuel Calavera]

Using the SP3 server socket as a foundation allows AMD to introduce significantly larger chips than Intel’s Skylake X parts as well as what the current mainstream AM4 socket allows. In theory, because the SP3r2 and SP3 sockets are physically the same, AMD has the ability to introduce CPUs with up to 32 cores for its high-end desktop Whitehaven platform although we’re not aware of any such plans.

[Bariarnil]

Autor Manuel Calavera

Točno. Intel može samo 24 jezgre ako se ne varam, ugurat na 2011 pinova. Zato imaju 3647 za one 28 jezgrene.
S druge strane, takvi čipovi više koštaju za proizvest da vidimo ko ima bolje fabrike

[Manuel Calavera]

To će se kasnije povećavat (ako se može). Sad amd očito ide na 16 jezgri, intel na 12

Inače iz jednog od prethodnih linkova:

The slides don’t stop at that and start comparing AMD Naples with Intel’s Skylake-SP platform which is also launching mid 2017. AMD says that there’s a 14% advantage of cores per rack that ship with their Naples platform compared to Intel’s. On Intel, a singular rack will consist of 4704 cores while AMD’s Zen based Naples Rack will ship with 5376 cores.

Đizus, let the core war begin