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Staro Jučer, 19:26   #691
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zakonski je nesto sto ne zelim diskutirati jer vecinom nije u nasim rukama.
Ja sam mislio da je ovo demokratija.
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But there’s a reason. There’s a reason. There’s a reason for this, there’s a reason education sucks, and it’s the same reason that it will never, ever, ever be fixed. It’s never gonna get any better. Don’t look for it. Be happy with what you got. Because the owners of this country don't want that. I'm talking about the real owners now, the real owners, the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the senate, the congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying, lobbying, to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I'll tell you what they don’t want: They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. Thats against their interests. Thats right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table to figure out how badly they’re getting f*cked by a system that threw them overboard 30 f*cking years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you, sooner or later, 'cause they own this f*cking place. It's a big club, and you ain’t in it. You and I are not in the big club. And by the way, it's the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head in their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table is tilted folks. The game is rigged, and nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. Good honest hard-working people -- white collar, blue collar, it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on -- good honest hard-working people continue -- these are people of modest means -- continue to elect these rich c*cksuckers who don’t give a f*ck about them. They don’t give a f*ck about you. They don’t give a f*ck about you. They don't care about you at all -- at all -- at all. And nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. That's what the owners count on; the fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that's being jammed up their assholes everyday. Because the owners of this country know the truth: it's called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.
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Staro Jučer, 19:44   #692
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Koji je povezan s Discordom, pa su krajnji korisnici i njihovi podaci pokupljeni. Uvijek je neka pizdarija u pitanju, a onda kad se dogodi, unatoč i usprkos svim zaštitama - korisnici izvise.
Oko svakog messengera ima neka kontroverza.
Za Signal je to Katherine Maher (link1, link2).
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Staro Jučer, 19:50   #693
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Da i sve to smo već na ovoj temi raspravljali, ali super je kaj Pavel proziva nekoga za veze s istim agencijama kojima on daje Telegram na uvid uz pristup.
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Staro Jučer, 19:57   #694
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Da i sve to smo već na ovoj temi raspravljali, ali super je kaj Pavel proziva nekoga za veze s istim agencijama kojima on daje Telegram na uvid uz pristup.:):D
Da li je to dokazano?
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Staro Jučer, 20:01   #695
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Cijelo vrijeme pričamo o tome je da je tip pjeval borbene o slobodi govora i privatnosti na Internetu, a onda kad su ga u Francuskoj žandari uhapsili, odmah je na zahtjev američkih agencija omogućil da dobe sve kaj traže, jer su "imali nalog", a i Pavelu nije baš bilo po volji čamiti u nekom reštu. I taj tip sad usred pustinje proziva Signal i sl. koji imaju/koriste open-source enkripciju, dok jedino Pavel zna koga vraga je ubacil u svoje mehanizme za Telegram, jer on je programer.
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Durov was arrested in France at Le Bourget Airport near Paris in late August 2024 in connection with an investigation into Telegram's use for fraud, drug trafficking, and illegal content distribution. Days later, he was released on bail set at €5 million (roughly $5.6 million), but he was instructed not to leave the country because French authorities were still investigating him. One month after Durov's arrest, Telegram announced that it started sharing users' phone numbers and IP addresses with law enforcement if they violated the platform's rules following valid legal requests and only after receiving a valid court order confirming that the user is a suspect in a criminal case that breaches the platform's Terms of Service.
Znači, tip je licemjer ko i svi takvi, a čim se njega hapsi i maše mu se s nalogom ispred nosa, odmah je druga pjesma.
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Staro Jučer, 20:12   #696
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Ja sam mislio da je ovo demokratija.

I jeste. Ali politici nema mjesta na forumu jer tema uvijek oder u krasan k**** jer svatko ima svoje glediste na stvari sto JE ok ali ne zelim da se djecjim prepirkama zatruje tema koja ima potencijala. Ako mislis suprotno diskutiraj sa nekim od admina foruma.
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Staro Jučer, 20:29   #697
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To ti se zove doublethink.

Nego, nemam ja želju ni potrebu diskutirati o politici, već pričamo o privatnosti na webu. Nisam do sada primijetio da bilo tko ovdje kaže kako je chat control dobra stvar tako da ne vidim potencijal za odlaženje teme u krasan k.

Niti sam do sada vidio dječje prepirke. OK, možda je ovaj dio s "moja chat aplikacija je bolja od tvoje" malo djetinjast, ali generalno gledano chat control nije dobra ideja (za nas) i to što bi netko to mogao ne samo proglasiti legalnim već i natjerati razne nezavisne entitete da im moraju pomoći ostvariti njihove ciljeve nema veze s tom konstatacijom.

Naslov teme je "Privatnost i sigurnost podataka i korisnika" tako da bih rekao da je tema generalno pogođena. Jedan dio ljudi očekuje određenu privatnost u komunikaciji s rodbinom i prijateljima i mislim da na to imaju puno pravo. Ako gospoda žele tražiti pedofile i švercere djecom, neka prvo počiste svoje dvorište, tamo toga ima napretek.
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But there’s a reason. There’s a reason. There’s a reason for this, there’s a reason education sucks, and it’s the same reason that it will never, ever, ever be fixed. It’s never gonna get any better. Don’t look for it. Be happy with what you got. Because the owners of this country don't want that. I'm talking about the real owners now, the real owners, the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the senate, the congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying, lobbying, to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I'll tell you what they don’t want: They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. Thats against their interests. Thats right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table to figure out how badly they’re getting f*cked by a system that threw them overboard 30 f*cking years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you, sooner or later, 'cause they own this f*cking place. It's a big club, and you ain’t in it. You and I are not in the big club. And by the way, it's the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head in their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table is tilted folks. The game is rigged, and nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. Good honest hard-working people -- white collar, blue collar, it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on -- good honest hard-working people continue -- these are people of modest means -- continue to elect these rich c*cksuckers who don’t give a f*ck about them. They don’t give a f*ck about you. They don’t give a f*ck about you. They don't care about you at all -- at all -- at all. And nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. That's what the owners count on; the fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that's being jammed up their assholes everyday. Because the owners of this country know the truth: it's called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.
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Staro Jučer, 20:43   #698
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Cijelo vrijeme pričamo o tome je da je tip pjeval borbene o slobodi govora i privatnosti na Internetu, a onda kad su ga u Francuskoj žandari uhapsili, odmah je na zahtjev američkih agencija omogućil da dobe sve kaj traže, jer su "imali nalog", a i Pavelu nije baš bilo po volji čamiti u nekom reštu. I taj tip sad usred pustinje proziva Signal i sl. koji imaju/koriste open-source enkripciju, dok jedino Pavel zna koga vraga je ubacil u svoje mehanizme za Telegram, jer on je programer.

Znači, tip je licemjer ko i svi takvi, a čim se njega hapsi i maše mu se s nalogom ispred nosa, odmah je druga pjesma.
Mislim da si počeo miješat kruške i jabuke.
Diskusija je od prije krenula od toga koliko je dopisivanje privatno na kojem messengeru (dakle misli se na poruke), a završio si na tome da Durov daje IP adrese i telefonske brojeve na uvid kada dobije sudski nalog, osim šta IP i tel. brojevi ≠ privatne poruke.

Koliko vidim, Signal pohranjuje najmanje metadate o korisnicima, tako da na upit po sudskom nalogu imaju puno manje podataka za dati od ostalih (vrijeme kreacije accounta i kad si zadnji put bio online) dok drugi pohranjuju puno više, no isto tako, koliko vidim, za nijedan od 3 poznata messengera (whatsapp, signal, tg) ne vidim da su leakali privatne poruke na zahtjev suda.

To je očito dio koji je zajednički svima, drugim riječima, do samog sadržaja poruka (o čemu ovdje raspravljamo) inspektori očito moraju doći na neke svoje načine (tipa mameći pedofile sa fake accounta i sl. pa spremaju svo dopisivanje s njim kao dokaz kasnije), no da su te firme njima dale te poruke na izvolte...nisam našao.
Ako jesu ispod stola, to je nešto drugo, a o tome ionako ne možemo.
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Staro Jučer, 20:54   #699
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To ti se zove doublethink.

Nego, nemam ja želju ni potrebu diskutirati o politici, već pričamo o privatnosti na webu. Nisam do sada primijetio da bilo tko ovdje kaže kako je chat control dobra stvar tako da ne vidim potencijal za odlaženje teme u krasan k.

Niti sam do sada vidio dječje prepirke. OK, možda je ovaj dio s "moja chat aplikacija je bolja od tvoje" malo djetinjast, ali generalno gledano chat control nije dobra ideja (za nas) i to što bi netko to mogao ne samo proglasiti legalnim već i natjerati razne nezavisne entitete da im moraju pomoći ostvariti njihove ciljeve nema veze s tom konstatacijom.

Naslov teme je "Privatnost i sigurnost podataka i korisnika" tako da bih rekao da je tema generalno pogođena. Jedan dio ljudi očekuje određenu privatnost u komunikaciji s rodbinom i prijateljima i mislim da na to imaju puno pravo. Ako gospoda žele tražiti pedofile i švercere djecom, neka prvo počiste svoje dvorište, tamo toga ima napretek.

Mkey, gle...drag si mi i nisi supak kao neki na forumu pa cu biti ljubazan. Gle nisam nigdje napisao da sam ZA to sranje niti je da je to dobro. Ali razglabat o politickim odlukama na forumu nema smisla. Drugo. Toliko ostalih sranja koje su i gora od tog zakona vec su odavno u opticaju pa nitko niti pokusava iste svrgnuti niti se buni, cak stovise vecina naroda je prihvatila to kao normu. Zbog toga mi najvise ova diskusija ide na zivac. I trece i zadnje - kao autor ove teme vec sam vise puta objasnio zasto sam otvorio istu i ide mi fakat na zivac grananje teme na nesto sto nije i nebi trebala biti.
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Staro Jučer, 21:00   #700
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Mislim da si počeo miješat kruške i jabuke.
Mislim da nisam ništa pomiješal, samo je lakše vjerovati Pavelu i sl. koji se javno i licemjerno bore za slobodu govora i privatnost na Internetu, a onda "samo" daju IP adrese i brojeve telefona sa svoje skroz tzv. anonimne aplikacije za koju su osobno pisali kod za enkripciju, ali nikada ne bi nekome dali uvid u kompletne poruke i nečije dopisništvo. Kako da ne.
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Zamisli imaš ogromnu povijest dopisivanja s nekim prijateljem, šerali ste tonu slika, videa, itd... ali prijatelju netko mazne mobitel (ili završi u ćuzi).
Zamisli da Pavel ima lokalnu kopiju Telegram backupa, pa po potrebi napravi restore kad mu se pokaže nalog, a onda se korisnici čude kak se obrisane poruke vraćaju.
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Staro Jučer, 21:10   #701
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Mislim da nisam ništa pomiješal, samo je lakše vjerovati Pavelu i sl. koji se javno i licemjerno bore za slobodu govora i privatnost na Internetu, a onda "samo" daju IP adrese i brojeve telefona sa svoje skroz tzv. anonimne aplikacije za koju su osobno pisali kod za enkripciju, ali nikada ne bi nekome dali uvid u kompletne poruke i nečije dopisništvo. Kako da ne.

Zamisli da Pavel ima lokalnu kopiju Telegram backupa, pa po potrebi napravi restore kad mu se pokaže nalog, a onda se korisnici čude kak se obrisane poruke vraćaju.
Da li je to dokazano ili na razini "zamisli" i "kako da ne" ?
Btw. insinuacije da netko koristi telegram jer "vjeruje Pavelu" ti nisu potrebne.
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Staro Jučer, 21:20   #702
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Tražiš puno dokaza, a onda kao kontru bacaš Pavelove riječi i uvjerenja, samo da bi sad zaključil kak mi vjerovanje u njega nije potrebno. Definitivno ne vjerujem u Pavela, njegove riječi i popratni mu Telegram, tak da tu nemaš brige. Siguran sam da Pavel nema lokalnu kopiju Telegram backupa, posebice, jer je on taj koji je kao programer intimno upoznat s načinom na koji mu aplikacija funkcionira. Isprike na insinuacijama i konstrukcijama, isprike Pavelu i korisnicima Telegrama.
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Staro Jučer, 22:14   #703
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Uhvatili su krivog brata, Pavel nije napravio Telegram nego njegov brat. Pavel je imao ideju, ali je brat realizirao tu ideju.
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Staro Jučer, 22:23   #704
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Pavel je taj koji se u intervjuima hvali, pa ga hapse, a Nikolai Durov je javnosti dobrim dijelom nepoznat.
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Staro Jučer, 22:33   #705
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Pavel je PR, zato je i upitno koliko su izvukli iz njega.
Po slici se vidi tko radi, a tko partija.
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Staro Jučer, 22:40   #706
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Da, samo velim da je tip u onih četiri i pol sata s Lexom, napričal sve i svašta. Nije mi jasno zakaj sam to pogledal i preslušal, ali jesam, pa Pavel između ostalog priča da on ne koristi smartphone uređaje, bar ne u toj mjeri kak to rade ostali na planeti, jer su njegova uvjerenja iznad toga, na stranu sad da mu je aplikacija, skoro pa isključivo na mobilnim uređajima. Brat Nikolai je jako povučena i privatna osoba i genije koji ga je naučil sve kaj zna, pa na temu programiranja Pavel hvali samog sebe kako već s 10/11 godina skroz samostalno programira igre, aplikacije, društvene mreže, ono, nema čega nema u tom intervjuu, a Pavel priča i priča i nema mu kraja.
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Staro Danas, 09:31   #707
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Kao što rekoh rođen u vrijeme kad se ono škakljivo prenosilo šaptanjem na uho bez bilo kakvih tragova, pa mi je ovo danas smiješno.
Nikada nisam otvorio facebook profil, ne zato jer se bojim za privatnost nego jer mi je bilo neugodno gledati gdje je netko ručao, ljetovao, kakav je auto kupio i koga je pohebao. Još bi mi bilo neugodnije to objavljivati.
Viber i whats up koristio jer je to bio besplatni vidi komunikacije u vrijeme naplate SMSova, pa se ukorijenio do danas.
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