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-   -   Nadolazeći AMD socketi, ploče i procesori (https://forum.pcekspert.com/showthread.php?t=32021)

Disco 03.06.2024. 15:41

Citiraj:

Autor The Exiled (Post 3745073)
MBO proizvođači imaju taj dio na izbor, AMD im daje mogućnost da slože čipset kak ih volja, slično su imali i za prijašnje generacije.

Pa super, po ovome utor za grafu dobivamo izgleda obavezno.
A USB 4 nemam pojma koliko ima smisla, sjećam se da da sam na z68 (ili je bilo z78, nisam više siguran) imao tada 2xUSB 3.0 i to je očajno radilo.
Tek na Zenu mi je to radilo kako treba. Tako nekako imam filing da ti 3rd party USb 4.0 vj nisu neka sreća što se tiče kompatibilnosti.

The Exiled 03.06.2024. 16:33

MBO društvo hoće svake godine prodati "nove" ploče mada realno sa AM4 i sad za AM5 platformu nemaju kaj novo osim tih "sitnica", pa se onda naglašava sve i svašta, jer čipseti su identični. Krajnjim korisnicima je dosta da na X670 i B650 imaju BIOS za Zen 5 i kasnije za Zen 6, a "nove" ploče budu i za sljedeću arhitekturu opet išle u opticaj, pa kome treba, bog-bogova.:)

Odinarius 03.06.2024. 18:57

Sad je jedino pitanje da li će novi procevi biti jači u igrama od 7800X3D (neće), i koliko se RAM može nafrljiti i da li tu ulogu ima nova ploča (ne bi smjela ako je isti čipset...).

Disco 03.06.2024. 19:17

Citiraj:

Autor Odinarius (Post 3745159)
Sad je jedino pitanje da li će novi procevi biti jači u igrama od 7800X3D (neće), i koliko se RAM može nafrljiti i da li tu ulogu ima nova ploča (ne bi smjela ako je isti čipset...).

Pa po AMD slideovima izgleda da će situacija biti jednaka prethodnoj. A to je da je 5800X3D tu negdje sa 7600/7700 kako gdje. Tako će vj 7800X3D biti tu negdje sa 9600/9700. E tu onda igra cijena, ali vj i sam RAM (da li će zen5 stvarno podržavat 8ghz RAM), potrošnja i zagrijavanje, pa si fino napraviš usporedbu i kupiš što ti najviše odgovara.
Ali to mi je ionako bzvz jer ja prvi recimo nikada ne ganjam te tz ''HALO'' proizvode, tj sam vrh. Ja si uvijek gledam neki best buy gdje ću najviše dobiti za svoj način korištenja. Meni je vj i 8 jezgri previše, ali ne znam bi li opet uzeo 6. Sve ovisi od cijene.
Isto tako je pametno pričekat 3-4mj da izađu svi nedostatci na vidjelo i da se to popegla BIOSima i chipset driverima. ;)

Sada vidim i ovo za RAM, kontroler je u samom CPU, tako da sve ovisi o njemu, i tu isto ganjaš silikonsku lutriju jer ovisiš o kvaliteti samog kontrolera u procu.
A što se ploča tiče, mislim da više nitko ne radi T topologiju, tako da su tu vj sve slične.
T topologija više voli 4 keksa, dok ova druga (zab a neda mi se guglati) voli 2 keksa.
I onda npr kao ja uzmeš ovu asusicu (c6h) koja je T topologija i veliki kuler koji ti prekrije prvi utor za RAM i na konju si. ;)

The Exiled 03.06.2024. 19:20

Internetima kruže kojekakve X670E test platforme sa 9950X + DDR5-8400, a performanse u rangu 7800X3D ili malo bolje, pa recimo da budu i s "novim" pločama tu negdje.:)

Makar, kak god se okrene Zen 5 3D modeli su svakak u (kasnijem) dolasku ko i uvijek dosad, tak da netko tko sad ima 7800X3D vrlo vjerojatno skače direktno na npr. 9800X3D.

Dottore 04.06.2024. 00:23

Bit će zanimljivo kako će odraziti cijene ploča aktualni i budući. Nadam se da neće ponoviti kao na B650E/ x670E. Još kad sjetim skupe ITX.

Brzi Picek 04.06.2024. 11:09

AMD Ryzen™ 9 7950X Desktop Processor vs AMD Ryzen™ 9 7950X3D Gaming Processor (170W vs 120W)

Pokušavam shavtiti kako ako ima i više L3 memorije od drugoga koji ima upola manje memorijeL3 i na kraju potrošnja 120W vs 170W isti broj jezgri i takt
U čemu je fora zna li tko da mi objani ? Hvala

Max Rockatansky 04.06.2024. 11:26

Da probam karikirano ...X3D ne smije povući struje (PBO ili ručni oc) koliko obični da ne zapali susjede na katu (3D cache, 64 MB zalemljenih na chiplet).
Kad si sam u kući, ponašaš se kako hoćeš :).

Brzi Picek 04.06.2024. 11:30

ok shvatil san, znači memorija mu neda da se zamaše, ali ako radi na istom taktu jezgra ond amora da isključi više jezgri da ne povuče više od 120W jel tako , znači u prevodu L3 memorija u stvari samo smeta , ako ti zbog nje smanji broj jezgri (takt npr)koje rade
jesam li pohvatao konope ?

Max Rockatansky 04.06.2024. 11:37

Neka netko pametniji detaljnije objasni, neke aplikacije imaju više koristi od dodatnog cachea (npr. igre) nego od većeg takta svih jezgri.
Npr. za CPU-rendering je obrnuto, "obični" 7900X ili 7950X je bolji od X3D jer sve jezgre mogu raditi na većem taktu (100% load) pri čemu povuku i više struje.

The Exiled 04.06.2024. 12:03

Citiraj:

Autor Brzi Picek (Post 3745273)
ok shvatil san, znači memorija mu neda da se zamaše, ali ako radi na istom taktu jezgra ond amora da isključi više jezgri da ne povuče više od 120W jel tako , znači u prevodu L3 memorija u stvari samo smeta , ako ti zbog nje smanji broj jezgri (takt npr)koje rade
jesam li pohvatao konope ?

Nema gašenja jezgri, samo se radi o dvije različite implementacije, pa svaka radi na svoj način, a opet su dio istog paketa.

120W TDP je tu reda-radi, jer procesor je u stanju povući više od 160W, makar cijela Zen 4 generacija se može dodatno u BIOS-u podesiti kak kome paše.
https://i.postimg.cc/w3YtGQqH/130335.png

:chears::frend:
Citiraj:

Citiraj:

Looking at the main specifications of the Ryzen 9 7950X3D, it has 16 Zen 4 CPUs cores and operates at a TDP rating of 120 W; this is some 50 W lower than the regular Ryzen 9 7950X. According to AMD, the more relevant Package Power Tracking (PPT) rating is 1.35x the TDP, which puts the socket power output at up to 162 W. The Ryzen 9 7950X3D also shares the same turbo frequency as the Ryzen 9 7950X, which is 5.7 GHz, but AMD has lowered the base frequency by 300 MHz, making it 4.2 GHz on the 7950X3D. Memory support remains unchanged from the rest of the Ryzen 7000 family, with JEDEC-compliant speeds topping out at DDR5-5200, while overclocking (AMD EXPO, etc) can take it over DDR5-6000.

Touching on the design of the Ryzen 9 7950X3D, AMD is employing an asymmetric chiplet design, where one of the CCDs is a vanilla Zen 4 CCD, and the other is a Zen 4 CCD with 64 MB of V-Cache stacked on. This means that the Ryzen 9 7950X3D has one CCD with 96 MB of L3 cache, while the second "vanilla" CCD still has the usual 32 MB available. AMD's Infinity Fabric Interconnect keeps everything flowing, which connects both CCDs to the centralized IOD in a die-to-die connect flow.

Notably, just as the two CCDs are unequal in cache, they're also unequal in peak clockspeeds. Attaching a V-Cache die to a CCD limits the highest clockspeeds it can attain, capping it at around 5.25GHz. Thus, compared to the 5.7GHz max clockspeed of a plain Zen 4 CCD (as used on the 7950X/7950X3D), this represents a roughly 8% frequency handicap for adding V-Cache. Which is why AMD is including both types of CCDs on their Ryzen 9 7000X3D parts, ensuring that applications have access to whatever type of CCD better fits their processing needs.
Izvor: AnandTech

Brzi Picek 04.06.2024. 14:46

jasno , hvala na detaljnom objašnjenju
inače imam 7800 3DX pa me malo zanimalo za eventualne nadgradnje na 9xxx što gledati

Exy 04.06.2024. 18:41

Nema ti baš smisla to mijenjati, eventualno kad stignu 9xxx3D iako je i to vrlo upitno.
Odgledao sam malo AMD prezentaciju, i moram reć da sam skoro umro od dosade. AI AI AI AI AI AI, baš kad sam pomislio da taj market ne može postat dosadniji nego što je:D

The Exiled 04.06.2024. 18:45

Nema smisla to gledati, koju god od tih prezentacija, nVidia, Intel, AMD, ARM, sve samo AI i PR non-stop, sva sreća pa ovi YouTube kanali koji su sad na Computexu imaju svoje izvještaje s terena koji sav AI samo ignoriraju.:) Kaj se Zen 5 3D modela tiče, IMHO, u slučaju da Intel do kraja godine složi Arrow Lake, pa makar u papirnatom izdanju i ukoliko bude opet gaming naj-naj za taj CPU, onda AMD već početkom 2025. lagano može izbaciti Zen 5 3D varijante, jer bude do onda prošlo pola godine od službenog Zen 5 lansiranja i taman se sve kockice poslože na mjesto.:)

Exy 09.06.2024. 21:43

Gledam malo procjene za zen5, 10-15% brži u igrama, znači da 9600x/9700x opet neće bit brži od 7800X3D, razmišljam da uzmem 3D-a odmah, valjda ga neće ovi non 3D modeli preć :D

The Exiled 09.06.2024. 23:22

Nemreš fulati sa 7800X3D, jedino, ako ti se ne žuri, pa hoćeš pričekati da sljedeći mjesec stignu recenzije za Zen 5 modele i onda kupiš 7800X3D.:)
EDIT:
Citiraj:

AMD’s next-gen X3D CPUs target September release:kafa:
Citiraj:

Our source on the Computex show floor tells us AMD plans to launch 9000X3D processors in September. This matches the staggered release of X870E motherboards that we anticipate will arrive the same month. There’s no hard indication of which CPUs will arrive first, but an educated guess from historical releases suggests it’ll likely start with Ryzen 9 9950X3D and possibly Ryzen 9 9900X3D. There was a level of confidence behind our source’s words, and they’re trustworthy enough to put stock into. That said, familiarity with how nebulous AMD’s launch schedules are urges taking this with a pinch of salt. Nothing’s confirmed until you have a sample in your hand as dates can easily change.
Izvor: Club386

Exy 11.06.2024. 18:07

Ma ne žuri mi se, ali mislim da će ipak biti 7800X3D. Sumnjam da zen4-zen5 može biti upgrade kakav je bio zen3-zen4. Za primjer, 7600X ima preko 1GHz viši boost takt od 5600x, teško je postići toliko ubrzanje samo preko IPC-a, pošto će taktovi biti manje više isti.

Disco 12.06.2024. 11:29

Ja čekam nešto na 7ghz. :P To će vj Intel prvi kada skine još malo instrukcija i pusti samo jednu P jezgru i jedno 20ak malih E jezgri.
Skinut će se uz najavljeni HT i dual channel. Sve za brzinu, brzinu za ništa. ;)

Exy 12.06.2024. 19:22

Po svemu sudeći je nekakva tvrda granica oko 6GHz, zen4 joj je dosta prišao, zen5 bude možda 100mhz više ali je to onda to.

Disco 21.06.2024. 08:28



Fino ih je Stevo popljuvao za ove nebuloze.
TLDR:Rade testove sa RX 6600 da ispadnu jednaki ili brži.

The Exiled 21.06.2024. 10:46

Jedino kaj fali u toj sramoti je da ubuduće angažiraju provjerene stručLJake za marketing i to je to - onda su kompletni.:):D

Momir 21.06.2024. 18:28

Ne znam tko na RX7900 XT koristi 1080p. Mogli su uzeti i 720p i RTX4090, da se vidi još veča razlika.
AMD se prosro, a ovi sa testom još više, bar u mojim očima je tako :D

Full Throttle 24.06.2024. 09:17

Tko koristi? Isti oni koji koriste najskuplje gaming procesore s RTX4090 na 720p :)

Ja bi čak rekao da je realnija situacija da netko igra 1080p s visokim refresh rateom nego da uzme jedan od najjačih procesora pa ganja 720p.

Disco 08.07.2024. 15:16

Nije baš za ovu temu, ali nisam znao gdje bi:

AMD is Becoming a Software Company. Here's the Plan

Despite having a CPU microarchitecture that at least matches Intel, the company barely commands a quarter of the market (both server and client processors combined); and despite its gaming GPUs being contemporary, it barely has a sixth of this market. This is not for a lack of performance—AMD makes some very powerful CPUs and GPUs, which are able to keep competitors on their toes. The number-one problem with AMD's technology has been relatively less engagement with the software vendor ecosystem—to make best use of the hardware's exclusive and unique capabilities through first-party software technologies—APIs, developer tools, resources, developer networking, and optimization.

Bubba 08.07.2024. 15:39

Citiraj:

Autor Disco (Post 3751170)
Nije baš za ovu temu, ali nisam znao gdje bi:

AMD is Becoming a Software Company. Here's the Plan

Hajde da im je sinulo nakon 50 godina...

The Exiled 12.07.2024. 20:15

:kafa:
Citiraj:

Citiraj:

In his ongoing series of AMD Ryzen 9 9950X Blender performance tuning and testing, Anandtech forum member, Igor_kavinski has shown us how the 16-core flagship scales at lower TDPs within the Blender benchmark. So far, he has shown 60W,90W,120W, and 160W PPT results, and now, we have a new 230W PPT result that outperforms the Ryzen 9 7950X & Intel's top Core i9 chips. The chip being used by Igor's source is an engineering sample which should have slightly lower clocks than the retail chip. At 60W, the chip was able to come close to the Intel Core i9-14900K while boosting up to 4084 MHz, and at 90W, it was able to outperform the Ryzen 9 5950X while boosting up to 5053 MHz.

At 120W, the chip beats all of the top current-gen processors from Intel and AMD while boosting up to 5555 MHz and the same is the case with the 230W result which takes things up a notch with the frequency now hitting above 5.6 GHz. Do keep in mind that the other chips tested here are running at their peak power ratings. It's only the AMD Ryzen 9 9950X ES CPU that has been tuned. The maximum temperatures reached 62C and we can see that the chip didn't exceed the 230 Watts power consumption.


The Exiled 13.07.2024. 13:10

Zen 5 ready AMD B650 buying guide, top 5 best boards
:chears::frend:

The Exiled 15.07.2024. 15:07

Citiraj:

AMD is planning to launch both the Ryzen 9000 desktop and Ryzen AI 300 notebook processors this Summer. Some of the first notebooks powered by the Ryzen AI 300 series should be announced by notebook OEMs as early as this week; while the Ryzen 9000 series desktop processors will be available to customers from July 31, 2024. The new Zen 5 microarchitecture builds on AMD's proven CPU core technology, and doesn't try anything fancy like its generational counterpart from Intel, the Lion Cove P-core used on Arrow Lake. Zen 5 still brings a double-digit percentage IPC gain over the previous generation, and introduces several efficiency improvements over Zen 4 thanks not just to its newer 4 nm process, but also a host of other innovations. AMD was able to increase clock speeds, and lower TDP across the desktop processor lineup, and still achieve good performance gains.
Citiraj:

AMD has also worked on the physical characteristics of the processor's dies' cooling performance, which see a 15% reduction in thermal resistance, which results in an impressive 7°C reduction in temperature at the same TDP. We asked them to clarify this, and they confirm that no changes have been made to the IHS or the TIM. The improvements are due to better management of the "hot spot", and a different placement of the thermal sensor. Granite Ridge is a chiplet based processor, just like Raphael. AMD has largely carried over the 6 nm client I/O die (cIOD) from the previous generation, although the substrate has many changes owing to the different dimensions of the 4 nm Zen 5 CCDs, compared to the 5 nm Zen 4 CCDs.
https://i.postimg.cc/9FRD3Fxv/comparison-small.jpg

Citiraj:

The Zen 5 and Zen 5c cores will be implemented across 4 nm and 3 nm foundry nodes. Both the Zen 5 CCDs on Granite Ridge, and the Strix Point monolithic processor are built on 4 nm, however AMD is working on high-density chipsets for 5th Gen EPYC that will see AMD implement 3 nm. Back when AMD Zen made landfall in 2017, nobody expected the company to remain competitive with Intel for more than a couple of generations, but the company has consistently proven everybody wrong. It has stuck to its roadmap, only promised what it could deliver, and delivered on those promises. We've been given consistent double-digit IPC gains for each new Zen generation, and every two generations, AMD has transitioned to a new class of process nodes. In a way, AMD and TSMC have been able to imitate Intel's tick-tock product development cycle far better than Intel itself.

markecSMB 15.07.2024. 16:28

Ciganska firma, koriste isti IO die ko prije, sam da uštede. To smeće samo troši skoro 30w, i to uvijek (dakle i u idle)! i to smeće je s VSOC glavni limit performansi.

The Exiled 15.07.2024. 17:10

:):DKomentirali smo to već u nebrojeno navrata i napomenul sam ti da komotno možeš isključiti sve kaj ne trebaš. I/O ne skalira ko CCD s manjim procesom, mogu oni I/O dio složiti na manjem proizvodnom procesu, ali opet ne bude imalo efekta. Intel također za Lunar Lake koristi 3nm TSMC chiplet/tile i 6nm za SoC dio. Arrow Lake i sve kaj slijedi nakon toga, a bazirano bude na chiplet dizajnu, koristi sličan princip.
Citiraj:

The entire compute tile, including the P and E-cores, is built on TSMC's N3B node, while the SoC tile is made using the TSMC N6 node.
I opet, neovisno o tome, koliko se može skužiti porast performansi za Zen 5 bude sasvim solidan uz manju potrošnju i zagrijavanje.
Citiraj:

Autor markecSMB (Post 3752268)
To smeće samo troši skoro 30w, i to uvijek (dakle i u idle)! i to smeće je s VSOC glavni limit performansi.

https://i.postimg.cc/gn8tfXjV/AMD-01.png https://i.postimg.cc/pmvcxW5g/AMD-02.png
:frend:


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